Your opinions, please...

[Alvabass]

Hi again.

From some time ago, I've had the idea of arranging the fifteen two-part inventions by J.S. Bach for two basses. I know that such work has been done before, but I want to create my own version and, if possible, look for the way of releasing a book with it. Of course, this is intended as a didactic material. Right now, I've adapted the inventions # 1, 8 and 13. I created the score for two basses and a separate part in standard notation with fingerings for each bass. Of course, a work like this is not complete without a recording, so last night I started working on that and now I want to share my effort on the two-part invention # 13 (yet another one?). It was done with (guess what?) my 5-string Bongo with these settings: Full piezos, full bridge pickup, no neck pickup, full high-mids and treble, low-mids and bass slightly cut. The two track recording was done with Adobe Audition plugging the bass direct into my SoundBlaster Audigy 2 Platinum sound card and the only effect I used was a compressor. No reverb or chorus, for instance, so you can hear the real tone of the Bongo. Bass # 1 is panned fully to the right and #2 is panned fully to the left, so they can be isolated for you to play along (and hear my mistakes in detail ). The opinions I'm looking for are about the quality of this recording as a teaching material to be released to the public. I know that Bunny Brunel did this and I haven't heard it but I guess that the arrangements and recordings must be monstruously good. In my case, I just want to know if you think this recording meets a minimum quality standard. I mean, if you have the chance of trying this, would you buy it? The YouSendIt link below has a zip file with the recording, the score and the parts for each bass. The biggest problem I'm facing is that I chose to play these pieces at a moderately fast tempo and so many punch-ins should be done for getting this the best possible (specially for the first bass. I only did one punch-in for the second). I know I can record them much slower and use the software for speed them up, but I don't want to do that. I want to be as honest as possible with this. There are lots of mistakes, but I want you to tell me if those mistakes are so prominent to ruin the work or if, on the other hand, they contribute to the "warmth that the human factor adds to the recording". So please let me know your sincere opinion on this work (I'm ready for anything

). Again, think of this as if you were at your local store and were looking for such material for you to study. Thank you in advance!

Link:

http://s50.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=1W1I50B85MYG82ZZUTRGGGHKQ0

P.S.: I also posted this at TalkBass, but this link is different (more chances to download before expiring).

 

[JB1]

Hey Alvabass.

Have downloaded it, will play it later & give you some f/back.

 

[JB1]

Alvabass.

I like it!

I think you have something there my friend.

Best regards
JB

 

[Father Gino]

I only listenned to it briefly on my crummy computer speakers at work. The first thing that came to mind was that I didn't like the finger on the string noises. Sometimes that sounds kinda cool on an acoustic guitar, but not here.

 

[ReadNotReed07]

You're a good player man.

The tone is a clicky treble-fest though.

 

[paz117]

Yea you can hear your fingers moving up/down the strings, otherwise I like it. Don't think i've heard anything like this before. When i was starting out i had one of those books and yours sounds pretty good. If you want it to sell well, Lots of people are useing tab. Just a thought
Nice work!!

 

[JB1]

I agree about the noise, just didn't want to be thr first to say so!

Perhaps look to lower the high end a bit so it doesn't pick it up so much.

That's quite a fast line over the top, so I guess you have to get around the voard a fair bit. Just a suggestion, is there a way you could play some 'across' the board, rather then 'up & down' it?

Heck, I think you did a fine job. Tweak it up a little & you're there man.

 

[Mobay45]

Personally, I thought everything you did sounded great. That is some tough playing. I don't mind the string noises because they are just going to be there when you are playing something that technical and with that much speed. The only thing I would say you might have done was to give the 2nd part a little more bottom, but that's being really picky on my part.

BTW - If you learn to read music instead of tabs, you can read almost any music that's ever been written So many of the bass tabs I've seen are not written to reflect the correct bass line anyway.

 

[Alvabass]

That's quite a fast line over the top, so I guess you have to get around the voard a fair bit. Just a suggestion, is there a way you could play some 'across' the board, rather then 'up & down' it?

Er... sorry, JB!, I don't understand what are you trying to tell me. Would you please give me a further explanation, please?

Thanks everybody for your opinions! In fact, that string noise thing is one of my biggest concerns because I think it adds more realism to the performance, but it seems that there's a bit too much of it. I know that rolling off the treble may solve it, but my main "dilemma" on that is that the key factor here are the piezos, which pick every single detail coming out from the strings, and let me tell you something: This is my first bass with piezo pickups. Never played one, not even a hint of how the sound was (now I understand why that type of sound in Victor Wooten's "More Love") and I love it! Where have been the piezos all of my life? I'd never thought I was going to fall in love so much with that piezo tone. As I said in another thread, they don't impress me for regular, groove bass lines, but for solo work and slap riffs are awesome! I'll try rolling off the treble a bit to see what happens. Thanks again for your opinions and please keep them comin'! Here's a fresh link to the file, just in case:

http://s38.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=0TB069TPT06RN0I4J0NBLCABP4

One question for you, tab users: I haven't included tabs, but aren't the included fingerings enough for the same purpose? I haven't been a fan of tabs, really, so I'd like you to tell me how important they are compared with the fingerings I put.

 

[Alvabass]

The only thing I would say you might have done was to give the 2nd part a little more bottom, but that's being really picky on my part.

Hmm... your comment made me check the recording and I've noticed a really weird thing: Normally, I play my mp3 in Winamp, and this one sounds as expected when played there. But I've just tried the Windows Media Player, and the second (left) bass sounds annoyingly weak! I have no clue about this. Even weirder: I tried playing the original .wav file in WMP and sounds OK. The problem is just with the mp3, but again, it sounds fine in Winamp 5.09. So, if you've been listening in WMP, please try it with Winamp. Maybe you'll have a different impression.

 

[paz117]

Mobay45>>>BTW - If you learn to read music instead of tabs, you can read almost any music that's ever been written So many of the bass tabs I've seen are not written to reflect the correct bass line anyway.

It seems to me that most sheet music these days has tab included. I usually go by ear if im trying to figure stuff out...

 

[JB1]

Sure Alvabass, here ya go....

Let's say you're playing open E. To get an octave higher, you could go to 12th fret on E, OR you could go to 2nd fret on D.

In this way, rather than going UP 12 frets, you can CROSS 2 strings (quicker) and have less string noise getting to the next note.

Hope that helps man.

JB

 

[Alvabass]

Oh, yes! In fact, i always try to look for the most comfortable position in order to get the most notes with the less shifting. To me, that's one of the biggest differences between the bass guitar and the double bass. In the double bass you think "per string", while in the BG you think "per position". I also try to take advantage of open strings for big and quick shiftings, if any. Thank you for your suggestion!

 

[Disquieter]

ok, opinions.


the right side needs a bit less high-highs, and that wiggle thing at the end can go, your note isn't sustaining sufficiently for that to be a good effect.

the right side needs a little bit more mid range for increased note definition.


the left side needs more bottom end, significantly less highs (read: rolled OFF). it should be a nice round dub sound to compliment the lead part.

tonally there's nothing wrong with either, but when combined for this purpose they need help.

also, use a preamp other than the SBLA2, i used that forever and i's garbage.


I'm assuming that you intend on trying to release this as an educational material in mass publication. if that is the case, a higherquality recording would help significantly.



good setup for quiet recording:

cheap: mbox factory bundle

not so cheap (what I use now): DI from mesa head, into a firepod, into cubase sx, mastering with either wavelab or soundforge. super quiet and easy to use.


firepod is a firewire sound card. it's super sweet.

joel

 

[Alvabass]

OK, today I've been trying by cutting treble and hi-mids and I want to share with you something I think about it: I cut those frequencies a little bit and it's still OK, but what I notice is, no matter what I try to do, the finger noise is always there. The only thing I get by cutting highs by a generous amount is a muffled string noise, which is unpleasant to my ears compared with that noise sounding full open (again, just cutting high frequencies a little bit is still OK). I think the only solution for getting rid of that is putting flatwound strings on my bass, but I don't like flatwounds on a fretted bass. I'd like to know your opinions on this. Thank you!

P.S.: Again, the left channel shouldn't sound weaker than the left. If you hear it like that, please try with a different player like Winamp 5.09.

 

[Samingo]

Hey Alva. I listened, and I loved. I think it's wonderful. I see what everybody means about tones, but, and I mean this naively, not to sound like I know what I'm talking about, but I don't see why you would need any more than that for instructional purposes. I mean I understand mastering a song so it's perfect, I've been there, I can get quite obsessed over it, but teaching is different in my eyes. Like I said though, I'm No Teacher and my oppinion is Not Valid especially when put up against a lot of these folks. That's just my two cents. My suggestion though is to turn off the piezo's, I wouldn't be surprised if that was really adding to the problem.