Question Do Some Amps "Fatigue" Your Ears?

[Hendog]

I am just wondering what you guys think about this topic.

I have 2 amps that play at similar volumes, but one fatigues my ears (for lack of a better word). I just played it for a 1/2 hour and my ears are tired. Not ringing but tired.

Thoughts?

 

[bkrumme]

I'm not so sure the amp itself is to blame, but the combination of amp, speakers, effects, etc. They could certainly fatigue your ears given the right circumstances. If one amp fatigues your ears more than another amp, then you may have to look into why. Try starting with just your guitar and amp and see if your ears are fatigued. If you can, try the amp with different speakers. Add one piece to your signal at a time and see if something else is adding a harmonic or other sonic artifact. There's also the possibility that a simple EQ setting can make a difference.

Hope this helps.

 

[gerry d]

If I could ask the question..

is one of the amps a digital modelling amp..?

I had a very interesting conversation with a great studio engineer about "digital fatigue"

he is convinced that old tube amps don't fatigue your ears and that anything digital will after a certain amount of time become uncomfortable to listen to.

 

[Hendog]

If I could ask the question..

is one of the amps a digital modelling amp..?

I had a very interesting conversation with a great studio engineer about "digital fatigue"

he is convinced that old tube amps don't fatigue your ears and that anything digital will after a certain amount of time become uncomfortable to listen to.

No. Both are all tube.

Although I've owned multiple digital modeling amps, I have never owned one that was more than 30 solid state watts (I am buying them for practice, not for jams/gigs). Maybe if I used a 50 or 100 watt I would notice this phenom.

 

[Scandalous]

One possibility is the output transformer. OT's are responsible for even and odd order harmonics. Odd order harmonics are what cause ear fatigue. The Mercury Magnetics web site has some interesting information on this that might be worth a read.

 

[candid_x]

For me, it's the fizzy high end that fatigues my ears. That can be caused by any number of components or combination thereof: speaker, tubes, amp, guitar, or pickups.

I'd be curious which amp tires your ears, if it's Marshall or Vox type or more Fender type?

 

[nobozos]

Try a BBE Sonic Maximizer (or Sonic Stomp). It manipulates the way the frequencies escape the speakers (for lack of a more complicated explanation)

Plus, it makes the amp sound better. You can overdo it though. If you get too radical with the settings, you can make your amp sound like a cheap solid state amp. The key is to use the minimum amount of knob setting neccessary to achieve a better sound. Oh, and use it in the effects loop, even though is says to put it in front of the amp.

I think the Sonic Stomp is about $99. Well worth the money.

 

[bkrumme]

Try a BBE Sonic Maximizer (or Sonic Stomp). It manipulates the way the frequencies escape the speakers (for lack of a more complicated explanation)

Plus, it makes the amp sound better. You can overdo it though. If you get too radical with the settings, you can make your amp sound like a cheap solid state amp. The key is to use the minimum amount of knob setting neccessary to achieve a better sound.

Adding a Sonic Maximizer may actually exacerbate the ear fatigue.

As far as it making the amp sound better, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I've heard both good and bad results when using BBE products. But telling someone to add another device to their signal chain when they're experiencing a problem is counterproductive. It will just complicate things in the long run.

 

[Slingy]

Can you roll back the treble and make it go away?

 

[nobozos]

Adding a Sonic Maximizer may actually exacerbate the ear fatigue.

As far as it making the amp sound better, that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I've heard both good and bad results when using BBE products. But telling someone to add another device to their signal chain when they're experiencing a problem is counterproductive. It will just complicate things in the long run.

I'll have to respectfully disagree on this point. The following excerpt is pulled from the BBE website:

"The 482i Sonic Maximizer restores an audio signals natural brilliance and clarity by the use of two primary functions. First it adjusts a signal’s phase relationships between it’s low, mid and high frequencies while progressively adding longer delay times to lower frequencies, this creates a kind of “mirror curve created by the speaker neutralizing its phase distortion. Secondly the Sonic Maximizer augments higher and lower frequencies; loudspeakers tend to be less efficient in their extreme treble and bass ranges. The end result is a dynamic program-driven restoration without the ear fatigue that is normally experienced with the use of equalizers or exciters."

I'm willing to concede that whether or not one believes that the amp sounds better with the Sonic Maximizer or not is a totally subjective arguement, but I do believe it could relieve the ear fatigue he is experiencing.

I am basing this belief on the fact that I think the ear fatigue is potentially caused by phasing irregularities. Low and High frequency audio signals, slightly out of phase with one another would be corrected by this unit.

I don't know for certian that this will cure his ear fatigue, but it's a cheap try that could potentially give him what he may consider to be an improvement to his overall tone. I know that since I've been using one, I have less problems with ear fatigue, and my interpretation of my tone is that it's better.

 

[SteveB]

Any Fender amp with a "pull for bright" pot will fatigue my ears when that bright switch is activated.

So will any amp with a non-musical wanker playing through it.

 

[bkrumme]

The end result is a dynamic program-driven restoration without the ear fatigue that is normally experienced with the use of equalizers or exciters."

BBE is specific in that statement. It doesn't mean it will take ear fatigue away. It just means it will enhance your sound without the ear fatigue associated with those devices. At least that's my interpretation.

That said, even if the BBE does solve some of the phasing issues you suspect may be happening, the inherent problem is that there is a frequency which is damaging Hendog's ears. The BBE doesn't take the offending frequency away. That is my basis for saying it will exacerbate the issue. It doesn't remove the root cause of the ear fatigue which in this case could be caused by any number of elements, possibly something very simple which would cost nothing.

 

[parker1963]

If I could ask the question..

is one of the amps a digital modelling amp..?

I had a very interesting conversation with a great studio engineer about "digital fatigue"

he is convinced that old tube amps don't fatigue your ears and that anything digital will after a certain amount of time become uncomfortable to listen to.

I'll second that great comment!!.
My rythym player uses and ungodly digital amp with way too much effects and compared to my Marshall Tube head it does strain your ears and is bitting at times.Almost causes the effect of thinking you hear a phone ringing somewhere but aren't sure if it is in your mind or actually ringing somewhere.

P.S try the old Stevie Ray trick of placing duct tape in the middle of the speaker cone (on grill cloth of course) and this will greatly reduce the "Ice Pick" effect. They even sell little rubber disc's that hang on your grill front to do the same thing "Dampen the highs but allow all other delicious tone to come through.

park

 

[bkrumme]

If I could ask the question..

is one of the amps a digital modelling amp..?

I had a very interesting conversation with a great studio engineer about "digital fatigue"

he is convinced that old tube amps don't fatigue your ears and that anything digital will after a certain amount of time become uncomfortable to listen to.

I'll second that great comment!!.
My rythym player uses and ungodly digital amp with way too much effects and compared to my Marshall Tube head it does strain your ears and is bitting at times.Almost causes the effect of thinking you hear a phone ringing somewhere but aren't sure if it is in your mind or actually ringing somewhere.

park

The only time this argument even means anything is when you have a 100% analog signal. All guitars, effects, amps, etc have to be analog. If you slap a digital delay into the mix, you've killed the "analog/tubes are better" argument completely by introducing a digital device which will convert the signal from analog to digital, then back from digital to analog.

I challenge you to name an artist who doesn't use a digital device somewhere in the studio or live.

 

[parker1963]

The only time this argument even means anything is when you have a 100% analog signal. All guitars, effects, amps, etc have to be analog. If you slap a digital delay into the mix, you've killed the "analog/tubes are better" argument completely by introducing a digital device which will convert the signal from analog to digital, then back from digital to analog.

I challenge you to name an artist who doesn't use a digital device somewhere in the studio or live.

I think you are getting me wrong here....what i think we are trying to discuss is the Alldigital modelling amps such as "older" line 6 spider and these types of amps.I use digital effects as well in my chain and love their clarity but there are certain amp modellers that do strain the ear....but this may also be due to the settings the player has chosen as well.

Not an Elitist when it comes to tubes i use both mediums.

In answer to your challenge.......Angus Young ACDC

park

 

[bkrumme]

I think you are getting me wrong here....what i think we are trying to discuss is the Alldigital modelling amps such as "older" line 6 spider and these types of amps.I use digital effects as well in my chain and love their clarity but there are certain amp modellers that do strain the ear....but this may also be due to the settings the player has chosen as well.

Not an Elitist when it comes to tubes i use both mediums.

In answer to your challenge.......Angus Young ACDC

park

it's all good, man. I'm just throwing my opinion out there like everyone else Check out the Fractal Axe-FX for a digital modeling unit. It will make you think twice about digital vs. analog.

Honestly, I hadn't thought about Angus, but what about his wireless system? I know he doesn't use any FX or anything like that. Just guitars and old Plexis...and Ernie Ball strings

 

[GHWelles]

I am just wondering what you guys think about this topic.

I have 2 amps that play at similar volumes, but one fatigues my ears (for lack of a better word). I just played it for a 1/2 hour and my ears are tired. Not ringing but tired.

Thoughts?

Absolutely. Is one a transistor amp? Hard clipping with odd ordered harmonics is more fatiguing than soft clipping, such as tubes provide.

 

[nobozos]

Truly the cheapest fix of all is this:

I started wearing earplugs when gigging, and I could actually hear my guitar better in the mix, and all the way through the night. My problem was that my ears would suffer "burn in", and halfway through the night, my amp would be harder for me to hear. As a result, I ended up turning my amp up and doing more damage. The earplugs are a good idea, and will not be that hard to get used to.

 

[parker1963]

it's all good, man. I'm just throwing my opinion out there like everyone else Check out the Fractal Axe-FX for a digital modeling unit. It will make you think twice about digital vs. analog.

Honestly, I hadn't thought about Angus, but what about his wireless system? I know he doesn't use any FX or anything like that. Just guitars and old Plexis...and Ernie Ball strings

Ya i know its all good here too, i just like lively conversation on a topic that interests me.I have considered many times a rack mount such as the excellent stuff that TC electronics make.I have the Nova Reverb unit and i have to say its the best i have ever owned very lush and Controllable & versitile.

I will check out that Axe-FX Fractal unit as well. Thanks

Park

 

[zombi]

My rig:
ebmm silos
way huge red llama
lovepedal fuzz 50
sweet thing custom handwired analog overdrive
monster effects swamp thang tremolo
malekko e600 bright delay
moog 12 stage phase
sunn model t or orange tiny terror with mercury mag transformers
orange 4x12

no wireless. Future pedal aquisitions: fizz roxx octron 2, creepy fingers doomidrive, eb vol jr and wah.

All analog! All the time!