patpark
Well-known member
don't make me post my old band photos from 89-90
- Thread starter dwells
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don't make me post my old band photos from 89-90
Crimson Sunrise
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- Aug 18, 2002
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- 128
Well, I know I can relate to what you are saying. I've witnessed it on several threads. That "mob mentality" definitely exists here. I never bothered to put it out there like you did, but I sure have thought the exact same thing....I think you pretty much nailed it. It's alright though, I'm not bitter about it. It's just an internet forum, and I do enjoy reading many of the comments here related to EBMM guitars, so it's cool. Although, "mindless droids" do come to mind when you see that type of activity take place. Anyways, I'll probably get my head chopped off now for agreeing with you. Oh, well....what can you do?
Big Poppa
Well-known member
No Crimson you wont get your head chopped off...I read your past posts....You got a reaction. Thats good Really this metal one has gotten you the most involved and how has this been an mob it has been a passionate exchange that has shocked me in its response.....its really what is metal and then all hell breaks loose....
If you occasionlly see the mob mentality I say its rare that there are many more examples of a positive forum.....Are you jumping on the m inority or the majorioty...certainly not in any of your threads...Is it 9 out of 10 you see it 3 out of 50 1 out of 100?...
I see the tendacy to armchair moderate and when I see it I try to stop it with all mods....very few posts get deleted and I can handle the criticism.......
I have the perfect internet forum...one where everybody agrees....its called a word processor.
Lets have fun and Crimson or Stray Cat want a dedicated thread on this thats great but it is a hi jack and pointless.
If you occasionlly see the mob mentality I say its rare that there are many more examples of a positive forum.....Are you jumping on the m inority or the majorioty...certainly not in any of your threads...Is it 9 out of 10 you see it 3 out of 50 1 out of 100?...
I see the tendacy to armchair moderate and when I see it I try to stop it with all mods....very few posts get deleted and I can handle the criticism.......
I have the perfect internet forum...one where everybody agrees....its called a word processor.
Lets have fun and Crimson or Stray Cat want a dedicated thread on this thats great but it is a hi jack and pointless.
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nobozos
Well-known member
I think what we are really talking about here is a "Metal Lookig" guitar. Isn't that really what this is really all about?
My interpretation of what is going on, is that there are players that know EBMM makes great guitars, and they like them, but are disappointed that they don't "look cool".
How did metal guitars become metal guitars? How did the Les Pauls become such a popular rock standard? Were they designed to appeal to those specific crowds? Weren't the first real "metal guitars" Gibson Explorers, which were designed in 1958, before real metal even existed? Was Les Paul a hard rock player?
Now, there are guitars that have been designed as "metal guitars", like B.C. Rich Warlocks, and Dean MLs, but they're all variations of the basic look of a Flying V, or an Explorer.
These were existing designs that became popular with metal players. So, some pioneers in Metal played flying Vs and Explorers. That launches a whole genre of derivitave guitars based on the look of the originals.
When PRS guitars first came out, the popular guitars on the market were Kramer and Jackson superstrats. The PRS guitars looked like "old man" guitars, as did the Les Pauls. Nobody could have predicted in 1985, that a guitar that looked like a PRS would be so popular 10 years later.
My advice would be to stop worrying so much about what the guitar looks like. If it sounds good, and it plays good, use it. Stop trying to fit your music into some cookie-cutter image of what it's supposed to look like, and sound like. Take an EBMM JP, and make your own metal sound with it. You never know, maybe 10 years from now, all the metal idols will be using JPs instead of MLs with EMGs.
My interpretation of what is going on, is that there are players that know EBMM makes great guitars, and they like them, but are disappointed that they don't "look cool".
How did metal guitars become metal guitars? How did the Les Pauls become such a popular rock standard? Were they designed to appeal to those specific crowds? Weren't the first real "metal guitars" Gibson Explorers, which were designed in 1958, before real metal even existed? Was Les Paul a hard rock player?
Now, there are guitars that have been designed as "metal guitars", like B.C. Rich Warlocks, and Dean MLs, but they're all variations of the basic look of a Flying V, or an Explorer.
These were existing designs that became popular with metal players. So, some pioneers in Metal played flying Vs and Explorers. That launches a whole genre of derivitave guitars based on the look of the originals.
When PRS guitars first came out, the popular guitars on the market were Kramer and Jackson superstrats. The PRS guitars looked like "old man" guitars, as did the Les Pauls. Nobody could have predicted in 1985, that a guitar that looked like a PRS would be so popular 10 years later.
My advice would be to stop worrying so much about what the guitar looks like. If it sounds good, and it plays good, use it. Stop trying to fit your music into some cookie-cutter image of what it's supposed to look like, and sound like. Take an EBMM JP, and make your own metal sound with it. You never know, maybe 10 years from now, all the metal idols will be using JPs instead of MLs with EMGs.
waynesworld91
Member
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- Oct 16, 2009
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- 21
The guys from The Human Abstract play metal and they both use JP's.
beej
Moderator
A little respect please
Guys- just re-reading this. It's one thing to be passionate, it's totally another to call someone a "dick".
Let's keep the language down and the childish behaviour to a minimum.
Guys- just re-reading this. It's one thing to be passionate, it's totally another to call someone a "dick".
Let's keep the language down and the childish behaviour to a minimum.
paranoid70
Well-known member
Childish Behaviour...? We are talking about metal here!
Just kidding, despite my Steal your face avatar I have been a fan of metal my whole life.
Just kidding, despite my Steal your face avatar I have been a fan of metal my whole life.
dannymusic
Well-known member
metalmarty
Well-known member
Wow, what a thread. I usually doesn't get this "fierce" here, and I liked it as a change of flavour!
I consider myself a metalhead (duh, what's in a name) but I play anything from Pink Floyd to rock to DT to death metal. I've owned dozens of guitars from a lot of brands. Most sold because of GAS for something different, not because they didn't deliver the goods. If it has HB's it'll do metal for me. I Agree with BP: it's mostly the amp IMHO. Personally, I couldn't care less what shape it has. Seems that the superstrat idea fits me the best. I played black metal with a bright color textured Ibby Jem (90th). It sounded wicked, everyone agreed and no one said it wasn't "true". And IF they had: again, don't care. A guitar delivers or it doesn't. I played my conservatory-try out (robben ford and pink floyd) on my Jackson Rhoads and was accepted. They loved it. Wouldn't have to think twice to take my cherryburst Silo to an all-out grindcore gig. It will deliver.
A company should do what it feels comfortable doing. There's isn't anything that EBMM can't deliver on, with maybe the exception of the sound of a big jazz box. That's fine, there are other guitars for that. I'm sure that if EBMM tried to do a guitar because of popular demand and not because they believed, it would fail.
I love this company. There are also others that I like (though I'm spoiled now). If EBMM made a balls-to-the-wall metal axe: cool! I'll try it and if I like it i'll buy it.
My 0.02 eurocents
I consider myself a metalhead (duh, what's in a name) but I play anything from Pink Floyd to rock to DT to death metal. I've owned dozens of guitars from a lot of brands. Most sold because of GAS for something different, not because they didn't deliver the goods. If it has HB's it'll do metal for me. I Agree with BP: it's mostly the amp IMHO. Personally, I couldn't care less what shape it has. Seems that the superstrat idea fits me the best. I played black metal with a bright color textured Ibby Jem (90th). It sounded wicked, everyone agreed and no one said it wasn't "true". And IF they had: again, don't care. A guitar delivers or it doesn't. I played my conservatory-try out (robben ford and pink floyd) on my Jackson Rhoads and was accepted. They loved it. Wouldn't have to think twice to take my cherryburst Silo to an all-out grindcore gig. It will deliver.
A company should do what it feels comfortable doing. There's isn't anything that EBMM can't deliver on, with maybe the exception of the sound of a big jazz box. That's fine, there are other guitars for that. I'm sure that if EBMM tried to do a guitar because of popular demand and not because they believed, it would fail.
I love this company. There are also others that I like (though I'm spoiled now). If EBMM made a balls-to-the-wall metal axe: cool! I'll try it and if I like it i'll buy it.
My 0.02 eurocents
telemike
Well-known member
I think the AL body shape can be easily metalized and maybe it would sell or maybe it wouldn't. I think the few companies out there who specialize in metal guitars that have huge rosters of metal artist endorsees have a good lock on the metal guitar market. I don't think EBMM could really turn a profit trying to break into a niche market with higher end metal guitars when the majority of that market is the 300-800 dollar range. The price point EBMM is in would compete with the ESP and USA Dean series and I don't think the sales volumes would justify it for BP.
Scandalous
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- Aug 20, 2009
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- 19
Wow, Looks like everyone is chiming in on this topic. A couple of things to consider; Metal as a genre has progressed and developed vastly over the past 2-3 decades! Led Zep at one time was considered Metal! Compared to Norwegian Black or Swedish Death Metal, Zep sounds like the Beach Boys! As for EBMM sticking to the same old styles etc., what about Fender, Gibson et al? Tried, tested & true gear that has stood the test of time. Their styles and sounds are what make them unique. Now take an Axis and dime it out with a vintage Marshall Plexi and you'll be able to melt some Celtic Frost! Listen with your ears, not your eyes! Remember, criteria for a good Axe has always been Tone, Playability, Construction and finally Aesthetics; no matter what genre of music is played! EBMM is a peerless contender in all categories! Thanx to Big Poppa and his Spawn for such a kick-ass company! His reputation remains...........Sterling! Good Luck in your search for that elusive Metal guitar and please keep us posted as to what your quest uncovers.
Dante
Well-known member
`well, i give up. although discussion about business can't be avoided, talking about something with people who don't respect it is pointless and exhausting.
/me out
/me out
nobozos
Well-known member
Sorry you feel that way Dante. I'm not going to say that I don't respect metal as a genre, but I will admit maybe I don't understand it fully.
The way I understand it, metal is as much about image as it is substance. It's like your guitar has to look a certian way, and sound a certian way, to be metal.
EBMM doesn't impress me as a company that is concerned with image over substance. I think they reside somewhere where image and substance meet comfortably in the middle.
Dude, just because people disagree with you, doesn't mean they don't respect your point of view.
The way I understand it, metal is as much about image as it is substance. It's like your guitar has to look a certian way, and sound a certian way, to be metal.
EBMM doesn't impress me as a company that is concerned with image over substance. I think they reside somewhere where image and substance meet comfortably in the middle.
Dude, just because people disagree with you, doesn't mean they don't respect your point of view.
who here is not respecting metal??? I havent posted yet but to me this seems like an educated heated debate over the definition of metal and guitar qualities in relation to it... I think it really hasnt gotten too out of hand, lets be honest on any other forum it wouldnt have made it 13 pages with out it being locked or a trainwreck pissing match...metalmarty I agree with everything you said, I have been thrashing the hell out of my Silo for years, the only tone I can truly not get out of my EMBB is a fat jazz tone and it is to be expected because you really need a semi-hollow, maybe the 10th anv JP will change that
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Dante
Well-known member
nonono, i don't people distrespect me. people don't get metal, and never have, and kinda never will. that's what metal is, where all the misunderstood people come together and be angry. that's why we mosh instead of line dancing or waltzing. that's what makes discussing it moot. cuz you either get it or you don't. and there are LOTS of sorts of metal (though not as many as some would claim). and that's where image comes in.
think of it like this: if you went to a opera or a proper theater show, even if all actors are acting their asses off, you expect the backdrop to be in place and everyone to be clothed accordingly. otherwise, it's just a rehearsal.
you don't expect the president in a sleeveless T-shirt and bunny slippers, nor a thrash band in flannel. it's shallow but a part of it.
EBMM not being a company based on image means they guitars that kick ass instead of ads with girls in bikins or basking in past glories.
giving players the tools they require for the music they make is what they do; and in this case, there is a market segment which they choose not to cover.
i'm not BP, but here are a few reasons for not making a spiky guitar:
- because EBMM hasn't a history and (metal) endorsees like ESP or Jackson, it might not sell enough.
- because it might garner EBMM the reputation of being a metal guitar company, with all prejudices thereby associated.
- because it could cause a fan/buyer backlash, like Gibson doing strats, and cost them their name.
- because the market isn't appealing. too many cheap spiky guitars out there with not enough spiky-guitar-buyers in the upper segment.
i have but one reason FOR doing it:
- cuz I, ME, MYSELF might want a spiky guitar in the future, and would like it to be an EBMM, with a reasonable size, perfect fit and finish and that unfinished neck to die for.
nobozos, if you would be so kind to re-read the thread, i think you'll see that we've done about everything, 2 steps short of involving peoples mothers'.
metalmarty
Well-known member
Dante, FWIW: I love spikey guitars . Hetfield and Dimebag made sure I always will. I understand completely what you are saying.
I am still part of the scene. I got into it partly because I didn't want to fit in. Be myself, be different. Do as I wanted. Eventually I got the point that what we did was wear a uniform as well. The scene has unwritten "rules" like every other (sub)culture. Nothing wrong with that. I cut my hair and ditched the (visible ) piercings because of being "a respectable physician" But deep down I wish I could have the manes back. Maybe someday I will.
I love the bond in metal, I love the theatrics, the "you get it or you don't ". But I also appreciate the bands that walk on with short hair, glasses and a "non metal" axes and kick some serious ******* ass on stage without a huge backdrop, fireworks, blood everywhere and a busty, completely obsolete girl "singing" in the back
I tried to explain "it" about metal to people, it's pointless. The closest I could get is by explaining it in terms of "pure, raw energy". That and the amazing technical skills. My dad now understands why I love, say, Lamb of God. He can't stand the music as such but enjoys watching the musicians.
. Hetfield and Dimebag made sure I always will. I understand completely what you are saying. I am still part of the scene. I got into it partly because I didn't want to fit in. Be myself, be different. Do as I wanted. Eventually I got the point that what we did was wear a uniform as well
. The scene has unwritten "rules" like every other (sub)culture. Nothing wrong with that. I cut my hair and ditched the (visible ) piercings because of being "a respectable physician" But deep down I wish I could have the manes back. Maybe someday I will. I love the bond in metal, I love the theatrics, the "you get it or you don't ". But I also appreciate the bands that walk on with short hair, glasses and a "non metal" axes and kick some serious ******* ass on stage without a huge backdrop, fireworks, blood everywhere and a busty, completely obsolete girl "singing" in the back
I tried to explain "it" about metal to people, it's pointless. The closest I could get is by explaining it in terms of "pure, raw energy". That and the amazing technical skills. My dad now understands why I love, say, Lamb of God. He can't stand the music as such but enjoys watching the musicians.
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brokenvail
Well-known member
You know many people have mentioned the Ibby's. I also listened to videos and the Silo HSH seems like it could be a shred guitar to me. It is right in line in terms of con figuration as the Jem but with added options because of the swimming pool route. I am would love if EB had a model with jumbo frets but my main guitar for almost 8 years was my 1979 strat (which was modded for metal playing) and that had medium frets. I also wish they made a wider fatter necks. My 79 and Gibson have fat necks. That is where metal is at for me. I love the shred stuff and the thrash/ fast stuff but give me some BLS or Sabbath and I am in metal state of mind. Why don't I complain about the neck thing? I don't really see other companies making the big necks either. Everyone is making C and D neck and even thinner. It seems to be the common trend to have those shapes so I silent play them. EBMM gets most of my cash these days because their C (and V) necks are so playable because of the gunstock wax that everyone else just make a neck I don't like with a feel I don't like.
Big Poppa
Well-known member
when everybody listens to the other and accepts it as their opinion and merely states their opinion things should be fine.......Ok it sounded good.
Metal marty I get it .
I didnt do spikes necause the opportunity that I saw ans where my head was when we bpought it it was more ergonomic tools for artists....sort of the same place only the market has tatooed me to it
Metal marty I get it .
I didnt do spikes necause the opportunity that I saw ans where my head was when we bpought it it was more ergonomic tools for artists....sort of the same place only the market has tatooed me to it
metalmarty
Well-known member
I hope you don't think I was advocating EBMM making a lethal object shaped guitar in my last post?! Not in the slightest
! Perfectly happy with the line up. Ergonomics are, next to tone, the most important thing to me.
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