Stingray Classic fret buzz issue - strange one....

[Chris Charles]

Hey guys,

I have a 2011 Stingray Classic - Natural, flame maple neck. Beautiful bass!

I string it with DR Sunbeams 45-105.

I'm having an unusual fret buzz issue:

I've adjusted the neck so there's a slight bit of relief to accommodate string vibration, and there isn't any single-string buzz anywhere on the neck (except in the very high fret area - past the 15th fret on all strings - no big deal, don't play up there too much...)

However, there's a strange fret buzz when I finger octaves on the 8th fret on the E and D strings together (this would be a C note). There's no buzz when I finger these notes alone, but when I finger them together at the same time as octaves, there's a weird buzz emanating from below the 8th fret on the E string. My OCD analysis is the it's coming from the 7th fret on the E string, but not 100% sure; I can just tell it's coming from below the 8th fret on the E.

I've tried to tighten the truss rod, but then the 8th fret E string note buzzes when I finger the C note only on the 8th fret alone (not together with the octave on D). If I loosen the rod, the relief is too much and the action sails too high. It seems the problem centers around the 7th & 8th fret on the neck.

I would take the bass to a repair shop, but it's been my experience that most of these "guitar repair" guys are incompetent and I can do a better job myself and save the $.

Any suggestions or ideas out there?

 

[Soulkeeper]

Two C notes at the same time? My first guess is that there is some resonance thing going on between the two strings via the neck.

You could try tuning one of the strings slightly sharp or slightly flat, just for experiment's sake. If the problem goes away when one of the strings are slightly flat/sharp, it's probably a resonance issue, and if you really feel that it's important to fix it, maybe a different set of strings would be the most effective.

And now, over to the ones who actually know something about these things: ⇓⇓⇓

 

[strummer]

I have no idea whatsoever, but I'm curious: what happens if you tuned down/up a halfstep? Does the buzz-thing go away, does it still happen at the same place or does it move to a fret up/down?

 

[Chris Charles]

I'll have to experiment with these suggestions when I get home and then post an update.

It's not like I'm fingering many octave Cs on the 8th-10th fret all that much when I play, but I've never experienced anything like this before, and it doesn't happen on any of my other basses. I've also surmised might be some kind of 'resonance' issue.

I know it's happening below the 8th fret on the E string because I've tried fingering it using my middle finder on the 8th fret and holding down the 7th fret on the E string with my index finger. Buzz goes away. It makes me believe it's some kind of issue with the way the neck is bowing down the neck.

I know EBMM sets up their basses with Slinky 45-100s, but the 80 & 100 on the low strings is too light for my tastes; I've always used 85 & 105s, never had a problem resetting my EBMM basses (I also own a 98 Sterling and I've had several Stingrays in my career - but none with the Classic's 7.5 radius board, poly finish, or smaller frets.)

Could the frets not be level? Is it an issue with the 7.5 board? (I know these questions are hard to answer in the abstract here in cyberspace...)

 

[Chris Charles]

I have no idea whatsoever, but I'm curious: what happens if you tuned down/up a halfstep? Does the buzz-thing go away, does it still happen at the same place or does it move to a fret up/down?

Update: I tuned the bass down a 1/2 step, and the buzz is still there, which now leads me to believe it's a neck or fret issue.

 

[Movielife]

I'd try new strings. I had a wolf note on my SR5 since i bought it new, on the G string. Played those strings for over a year! Didn't bother me as the bass is superb.

Changed strings, WOW, tone was suddenly amazing as the strings were new, AND it played better, and NO wolf note

Worth a try.

 

[Chris Charles]

I'd try new strings. I had a wolf note on my SR5 since i bought it new, on the G string. Played those strings for over a year! Didn't bother me as the bass is superb.

Changed strings, WOW, tone was suddenly amazing as the strings were new, AND it played better, and NO wolf note

Worth a try.

I use DR Sunbeams 45-105. Never had a problem. Bass doesn't buzz in any other place, single notes, octaves, or chords. Only on the 8th fret E string while playing the octave on 10th fret D string. It's annoying.

Can it really be the strings? I'm willing to try anything, but I've been a DR Sunbeams guy for a while... And I did tune down, tune sharp, flat, etc. Buzz still there.

 

[Golem]

Two C notes at the same time? My first guess is that there is some
resonance thing going on between the two strings via the neck.

You could try tuning one of the strings slightly sharp or slightly flat,
just for experiment's sake. If the problem goes away when one of the
strings are slightly flat/sharp, it's probably a resonance issue, and if
you really feel that it's important to fix it, maybe a different set of s
trings would be the most effective.

Good advice. When I tune up, I never even check the open strings.
I check the range where I do most of my playing, and I check a few
fifths and octaves in there, as well ... tweaking the tuning on the
higher strings to get clean fifths and octaves.

I'm kinda klutzy, so if I get fret buzz playing a chord or interval, it's
almost always cuz I don't nail multiple notes as well as I do on single
notes. Ultimately, I got ridda fret buzz by getting didda fretz ...

Sometimes, a buzz comes from the nonspeaking length of the string.
Different necks have differently shaped relief curves. If you increase
relief and the buzz departs, then it's not resonance, cuz you still have
the same 2 C-notes ringing on the same 2 strings on the same neck.
The vintage shaped neck prolly assumes a different relief bow shape
than you've been experiencing on your other basses.

 

[Chris Charles]

Good advice. When I tune up, I never even check the open strings.

Sometimes, a buzz comes from the nonspeaking length of the string.
Different necks have differently shaped relief curves. If you increase
relief and the buzz departs, then it's not resonance, cuz you still have
the same 2 C-notes ringing on the same 2 strings on the same neck.
The vintage shaped neck prolly assumes a different relief bow shape
than you've been experiencing on your other basses.

I see. I normally shoot for very little relief on my necks - just enough to have nice, low playable action without any fret buzz. I do have a slight bit more relief on the Classic neck; I can add a bit more relief and see what happens, but the only issue is I don't want the action to be super high. I notice that the old-school bridge with mutes doesn't allow the string saddles to be lowered too far, so as not to press the strings into the mutes. I'm concerned that increasing the relief will cause the action to float too high, without being able to compensate by lowering the saddles.

Like I said, I'd bring this to a repair guy, but I've noticed that the vast majority of guys these days don't know what they're doing - I seem to know more than them and I feel I can do a better job myself....

 

[Rod Trussbroken]

I'd change strings. If no good then seek advice from customer service.

 

[Chris Charles]

I'd change strings. If no good then seek advice from customer service.

Alright - I'll throw a set of Slinky 45-105 on and see what happens. Then I'll post results for all you curious souls out there....

 

[Chris Charles]

Alright - I'll throw a set of Slinky 45-105 on and see what happens. Then I'll post results for all you curious souls out there....

Well, changing to the Slinky 45-105 seems to be a big improvement. I still have some tweaking to do - that awful buzz is there very slightly, but not nearly as bad as with the DR Sunbeams. Very weird. Both are the same gauge 45-105. Only thing I can think of is that the Sunbeams are round core and vibrate differently than the Slinkys, which are hex core?

Guess I need to go grab a few sets of Slinkys now...

Thanks for the help, guys. Appreciate it.

 

[bovinehost]

Every now and then you just get an odd string that doesn't do exactly what it's supposed to do. I mean, sure, I'm a company guy and I'd rather you buy Slinkys, but strings are so PERSONAL.

What I mean is that maybe trying simply another set of Sunbeams may also solve the problem. It may be just that individual string.

But of course I am, like everyone else, sort of just guessing.

 

[Chris Charles]

Every now and then you just get an odd string that doesn't do exactly what it's supposed to do. I mean, sure, I'm a company guy and I'd rather you buy Slinkys, but strings are so PERSONAL.

What I mean is that maybe trying simply another set of Sunbeams may also solve the problem. It may be just that individual string.

But of course I am, like everyone else, sort of just guessing.

I like Slinkys and used them in the past, but I find I wear them out very quickly. If I had an endorsement deal, then this wouldn't be a problem. Maybe someday I will... But at this point, I can't afford to buy lots of sets to restring my basses every week so they always sound tight. (Haven't tried the coated Slinkys, though - maybe they'd last longer...) I found the Sunbeams last me longer. And I don't subscribe to the boiling of strings or soaking in soapy water to recharge them - with nickel strings, when you take them off the bass, there are always fret grooves worn into them, which always seem to end up facing upwards when you put the strings back onto the bass....

But I'll use whatever I have to use to keep the Stingray Classic playing smoothly - bass sounds fantastic!

 

[dmk]

I also have a 2011 Stingray Classic. No fret buzz with the stock Ernie Ball Slinkys, but when I switched to DR Sunbeams, an open G would buzz near the 1st and 2nd fret. Also, fretting the first through third fret would cause a buzz. I switched to Dean Markley NPS Roundcore, and the buzz went away. I learned that the Sunbeams are low tension, and that might be a contributing factor.

 

[Soulkeeper]

I like Slinkys and used them in the past, but I find I wear them out very quickly.

I haven't tried them myself (yet!), but I've heard some rumors that Cobalts last forever.

 

[Chris Charles]

I also have a 2011 Stingray Classic. No fret buzz with the stock Ernie Ball Slinkys, but when I switched to DR Sunbeams, an open G would buzz near the 1st and 2nd fret. Also, fretting the first through third fret would cause a buzz. I switched to Dean Markley NPS Roundcore, and the buzz went away. I learned that the Sunbeams are low tension, and that might be a contributing factor.

By 'low tension' do you mean they aren't putting as much tension on the neck?

They're also round cores, whereas Slinkys (and most other brands of bass strings, for that matter) are hex cores.

I'd tweaked the neck to eliminate all buzz, except for the issue I described here, which no amount of tweaking could fix. There's still a similar buzz now that I put the Slinkys on, but only when I really dig in. And it's responsive to adjustments now.

 

[Bassguy]

One thing you may want to look at if you haven't already is checking the finish on the saddles; I had a similar issue on a Guild Pilot I bought years ago and chased it for a long time. I ended up finding a very small burr on the saddle, took nothing to clean it up once I knew what it was....the bridge setup is different than on the MM but it may have a similar effect

 

[Chris Charles]

One thing you may want to look at if you haven't already is checking the finish on the saddles; I had a similar issue on a Guild Pilot I bought years ago and chased it for a long time. I ended up finding a very small burr on the saddle, took nothing to clean it up once I knew what it was....the bridge setup is different than on the MM but it may have a similar effect

I'll check it out - thanks.

Now in 'experimentation mode' with the bass; put the Slinky 45-105s on, made some adjustments, buzz still there a little bit. Buzz lessens the more relief I put into the neck (loosening rod). However, I don't want a bass with action an inch off the board... So I'm slowly tightening the rod a tiny bit at a time, trying to find the lowest possible relief I can get with minimal 8th fret buzz. Giving time to let wood settle, etc.

 

[Freddels]

I doubt it's the strings. I'm going to bet that you have futzed with the bridge saddle heights and the truss rod. To get the action lower than what the factory sets it at, I usually turn the saddle screws a half turn or quarter turn (but I do them all the same amount). After that, it's just a truss rod adjustment due to weather/seasons. But I think you're way beyond the factory settings. Sounds like you need to take it to someone that does professional setups and have them set it up. They'll set the action the way you want it and they'll also check the intonation.