Help! Amp - should go digital modelling?

[mrmckinney]

If you want versatility then you have to go with a modeller. Then get high quality 2 x FRFR plus a sub woofer for extra punch. Job done.

Agreed if you're playing live and not running to the board. If you're recording at home, get a modeler and an awesome set of cans or a powered PA speaker/FRFR setup and call it a day. For home stuff, I am using my cans 99% of the time. It's all just preference though, I think.


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[KasperFauerby]

I'm kind of in the same boat as you.

I have a setup that I've been pretty happy with for live use for many, many years based on a Marshall pre-amp, a Boogie power amp and various rack effects. In addition to all that I've spent tons of money on pedals and "stuff" that allows me to record all that tube gear silently at home - lately a Rivera RockCrusher power attenuator and load box, which is cool... but expensive as well...

All that stuff combined does give a good tone, in my opinion... but a specific good tone.

Still, in my little home studio I often find myself missing certain sounds that my main rig just doesn't do well - so the gear hunt is always on, having me look at yet more (expensive) tube amps, pedals etc...

Personally I've concluded that I would overall be better served with "just" a Kemper - so that's what I'm planning to get soon. It's a bit of a thing to swallow, I've been a "tube guy" for many, many years. But the "evidence" available on the web is overwhelming... I think we have to accept that amp profiling/modelling is now so mature, that if you stay with tube amps it's mostly a matter of personal preference and principles more than sound quality. Especially for home recordings..

 

[howey4]

I moved over from tube amps to the Kemper 2yrs ago and I haven't regretted it once with the constant updates they just get better and better and are so much easier to set up for gigs once you have the sound you like it doesn't deviate from gig to gig you always have the tone you want no matter how small or big the venue is and it is so light lol ;-)

 

[ZeeW]

Wow guys... some awesome feedback and comments. I'm still undecided which way to jump.

I wont be playing out live in the future and will be spending more time in my home studio recording and well just noodling away.

As I write this, I'm thinking modelling as I have a pair of Genelec DSP active monitors and sub. I do have time to tweak away with a modeler and I quite like the idea of messing around with cab sims etc. I've also got a load of great analog effects pedals that I can use with a Boogie and a Torpedo Live is another option.

Argh.. decisions, decisions...

 

[KasperFauerby]

Just want to throw something at you regarding that Torpedo Live unit (because I was also VERY tempted by that piece of equipment for quite a while).

Something that I personally think isn't totally clear is the fact that the actual processing that is done in the hardware unit is (by their own words on their forum) the exact same algorithm that is applied when you use their free "Wall of Sound III" plugin!

So once I found that out I realized that the Torpedo Live is quite accurately named - it's a tool for having cab sim in a live situation. When recording, all it does is force you to "bake" one particular cab setting into your track, whereas using the WoS plugin allows you to tweak the cab sim settings during mixing.

The other thing that the Torpedo Live unit gives you is a Loadbox, so you can connect a tube amp without a speaker. But I found the Rivera RockCrusher to be a better option for that particular use case, since it's a passive piece of equipment (and thus dead silent) where the Torpedo Live has a fan in it.

Just something to consider, should you go the way of wanting to record tube amps silently with cab sim...

 

[Chaka5150]

So many good points on both sides here. I completely understand the frustration with what seems to be never ending tweaking to get those amazing tones you hear other guys get with their Axe FX. I went through that a lot with my Ultra and even on the II for some time until the last 6-9 months or so. The firmware updates have really made a difference there. I"m finally able to get those great tones within a few minutes.

Value: valid. not sure the Axe fx will hold value 10-15 yrs from now as a great tube amp like a Mesa. The Axe fx will still sound great in 10 years, especially if I (or others) claim it sounds great now, but will likely have the value like what a Digitech 2101 is today.

Physical difference of hearing the amp play in the room won't ever be 100% the same. I wouldn't be so bold to say that. With an amp, you're pushing air and that is very hard to simulate with a modeller. That being said, the feel and tones from the Axe will get you the Mesa plus 100's more. That value is hard to beat....and if you're gonna do any recording via DAW, the AXE or Helix or whatever is a no brainer. my .02. Either way i don't think you're gonna be disappointed.

 

[Mrblog47]

Go for the boogie. There's nothing more satisfying than turning one up loud and hearing the real thing. The fact that you don't have to keep things at bedroom levels is really a fortunate thing that a lot of people don't get to have. You can always start with the real thing and then get some mics and an interface later on if you want to record it. There's so many options take advantage of from mic placement alone. The joy of having a real set of tubes to put your guitar through is incomparable. Capturing that sound is a whole other fun side of the coin and something completely different to recording an axe fx or Kemper


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[Rick C]

I am addicted to my Axe FX II+

 

[mrmckinney]

I love amps... but the value and practicality of the higher end modelers is incredible. I had been a Mesa player for about 17 years. I now don't own an "amp" other than the Fryette PowerStation.


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[MikeVt]

Another vote for a higher end modeler. If you aren't playing out, and there are EVER concerns over volume, you're going to be handcuffed with a tube amp - which means you'll either get less out of your practice, or you'll practice less. Personally, I'm a Fractal guy, but the Kemper and Helix sound great as well (I'm jonesing for a Helix now). Keep in mind that the Fractal products and Helix are full fledged modelers, wheras the Kemper is a profiler. It is true that you can end up in tweaking hell with the modelers, but the tones are all in there. With the Kemper, if you don't like the profiles that come with the unit and can't get what you want via eq, you could end up weeding through thousands of profiles on the web...which could be hell as well. Just go in with your eyes open and try to set your expectations appropriately.

Mike

 

[SteveR]

I don't have a lot of experience with Fractal or Kemper, but last month I got a Boogie Mark V 35 combo and I love it. It's very versatile and is a tone monster. Good luck with your decision.

 

[trolley]

For me, the decision is down to how many tones you need.
I'm not gigging at the moment, but since it would be in a covers band anyway I'd need lots of different amp sounds. Much as the Roadster was the best amp I ever gigged with, I was still trying to force it to sound like something else. Which defeats the object of having a 'signature' sound.
If you just want Petrucci, buy the JP-2C. But if it's versatility, go for the modeller.
PM me if you'd like to hear the Helix. Or there's a couple of 'local' shops that have them.

 

[coldsummer]

Get the Fractal, absolutely.

 

[Rick C]

As stated earlier, I love my Fractal Axe FX II+ but it was a leap of faith buying it; none of the Vancouver, BC area stores carry one to try out. I watched every YouTube video and read a bunch of reviews and joined the Fractal Forum before taking the plunge. One really important factor is what you play it through should you choose this route; without really good headphones or studio monitors, you will not experience what the thing can really do.

 

[Mariner-aaron]

For me, the decision is down to how many tones you need.
I'm not gigging at the moment, but since it would be in a covers band anyway I'd need lots of different amp sounds. Much as the Roadster was the best amp I ever gigged with, I was still trying to force it to sound like something else. Which defeats the object of having a 'signature' sound.
If you just want Petrucci, buy the JP-2C. But if it's versatility, go for the modeller.
PM me if you'd like to hear the Helix. Or there's a couple of 'local' shops that have them.

That signature sounds is in jp's hands but to be honest, I think that JP-2C is just as versatile as the mark v. Personally it's seems to many people are going to pass that amp over because of jp's name on it. Kinda of sad when you think about it.

Home recording and jamming it's easier to go with a quality modeler!


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[Mariner-aaron]

Just want to throw something at you regarding that Torpedo Live unit (because I was also VERY tempted by that piece of equipment for quite a while).

Something that I personally think isn't totally clear is the fact that the actual processing that is done in the hardware unit is (by their own words on their forum) the exact same algorithm that is applied when you use their free "Wall of Sound III" plugin!

So once I found that out I realized that the Torpedo Live is quite accurately named - it's a tool for having cab sim in a live situation. When recording, all it does is force you to "bake" one particular cab setting into your track, whereas using the WoS plugin allows you to tweak the cab sim settings during mixing.

The other thing that the Torpedo Live unit gives you is a Loadbox, so you can connect a tube amp without a speaker. But I found the Rivera RockCrusher to be a better option for that particular use case, since it's a passive piece of equipment (and thus dead silent) where the Torpedo Live has a fan in it.

Just something to consider, should you go the way of wanting to record tube amps silently with cab sim...

I see thanks for the clarification


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[BUC]

Something no one else has mentioned: Your Petrucci is most likely piezo equipped?

A high end modeller will leverage that like no other single amp purchase.

I run the piezo through a Taylor IR in my Helix and it sounds fantastic. So not only did the modeller get rid of my amps, it got rid of my acoustic.

I've had my Helix for almost 10 months now and I don't think I've turned on one of my amps in that time.

 

[Rick C]

BUC is right on; with Fractal (and I'm sure Helix is the same) there are a huge amount of settings made by other users that can be downloaded directly into the Axe FX, saving a lot of time. Some of the acoustic settings are really incredible; I have one that makes my Majesty piezo sound very like an acoustic guitar; even has that acoustic shimmer when the strings are played harder.

As well, the Axe FX can be fed a real guitar or real amp sound, compares it to what you play and will model it to closely resemble the guitar/amp set-up used. Very cool and well worth looking into if this is all new to you.

 

[ZeeW]

Okay guys... many, many thanks for all the great info and replies.

Decision made - I'm going for the Axe Fx II XL+. It really has taken me some time to come to this decision, but its mainly based on that I will have lots of time on my hands to "learn" the Fractal, I can get into some direct recording and its a departure from what I have been used to.

Exciting times!!!

 

[Rick C]

ZeeW: please heed my earlier advice about playing the AxeFX through good headphones or good studio monitors if you want to get the most out of it, especially the stereo effects. I run mine through a pair of older Behringer Truth 2031 monitors and I'm really happy with the range of tones. If you have not already done so, I strongly recommend joining the Fractal forum and learning a little more before you take the plunge.

Fractal Audio Systems Forum

Good luck