Clean Tone? One Man's clean is another's crunch ..

[Lucidology]

So what is your idea of what constitutes a Clean tone?

It seems "Clean tone" is a relative term, based on the styles played or sounds desired in a person's head ...

In other words, I've heard players talk about what a great clean tone they can get by simply turning down their volume pot. However, in most of these particular cases, there is still dirt or grit in the sound... thus to my ears it still sounds more like a crunch tone...

(That's one of the reasons I had to change the model of EMG singles in the Luke... the originals simply were not clean enough for my purposes, though they sound excellent ...)

On my funky and/or Jazz fusion gigs... I need to go from a crystal, clear, spanky tone to a thick lead tone... so I prefer to use pedals to achieve this, not a volume pot... In fact, if you use a rhythm tone that still has some grit in it in certain situations... you could lose the gig (word will get around you're a rocker who lacks versatily, not a funkster or jazzer... all simply by what your particular choice of a clean tone may be ... )

Anyhow, I'm getting off the initial subject ... but the thread about the new Silo's clean tone possibilites was very interesting... This is quite an important guitarist's consideration when buying an axe and worthy of more extended discussion on a guitar player's forum. (Especially here, with the noted versatility of EB's)

So what is your idea of a good clean tone vs. a crunch tone... ? Or, what's 'just' clean enough for you with the kind of music you play?

 

[robelinda2]

well to me clean is Albert Lee. cant get any cleaner than that.

used my silo special last night at a gig and was amazed once again at how it can do Albert/funk clean, SRV lead, Robert Cray snap, classic rock creamy humbucker sound, and heavy as you want humbucker sounds.

pretty versatile axe!!

 

[candyredsilo]

I like clean to be the amp just barely breaking up, so if I back off the volume a couple of clicks it is crystal clean. After that, I with you, I use pedals to acheive thicker more distorted tones. I just recently got a Dr Z amp and it's my first adventure into a single channel amp. The Z's really have the clean amp market covered from head to toe.
Bill

 

[threeminutesboy]

the clean sound for me is when you have the feeling that your guitar is no more an electric guitar but a gas guitar !

Liquid sound running through your head, basically for me single coil in intermediate position a bit of delay and chorus and a clean channel on the amp

 

[candid_x]

Hi Lucid,

I think the difference is between clean and cleaned up. For what you’re describing, cleaned up isn’t clean enough, but for other styles, clean is just too clean, and so rolling off the gain to clean up is better.

Personally, I like very clean sometimes, throaty distortion sometimes, and cleaned up distortion at other times, which is why I choose two channel amps and a guitar which rolls off gain smoothly. I think it’s also safe to say that more amps do good distortion better than they can do good clean. For years I could never get my clean channel to sound warm enough, and so I rolled off the guitar volume to clean up the gain channel. I solved that matter by finding the perfect V1 12AX7, the right power tubes and the right speaker combination for my amps. Now I play through the clean channel about 25% of the time, and usually for just the type of funk rhythms you describe – pristine clean.

 

[Spudmurphy]

I bought one of the first solid state amps built in the 70's, by H/H and that was VERY clean. (in fact it was too clean so I got rid of it).

I now use my AL split between two amps.
Mags through the Marshall and piezo through the AER.
So using the POD xt through the Marshall as well, I get a good selection of clean and dirty settings. Very similar to what Lucidology is saying - getting the dirty sound via effects.I drive the Marshall a bit harder using more gain and volume from the Pod.

However the sound of the Piezo through the AER is what (ahhem, getting back on topic!) I would class as clean. But if you put the mags through the AER you get the Mr Albert Lee type of "clean" as well. I don't think I can live with a 100% clean tone alone though!

If I was to start all over again buying new gear then the 2 channel set up proposed by Candid-x would be my preference.

You are so lucky having the amps of today compared to the amps I had, when I started out over 30 years ago.

Nurse pass me my zimmer frame - it's time for bed!!

 

[candid_x]

Spud,

Or, the pre-master-volume days? I laid down an impromptu guitar solo during a session I was producing at Bearsville Studios during the mid 70’s, and the only amp they on hand was an old Fender Deluxe Reverb. I had to stand in the next booth over to play through it because I wanted a nice overdriven sound, and the only way to get it was to crank it straight up to deafening levels. I later owned a Twin Reverb that was literally impossible to overdrive, and I complicated it further by insisting it have two Altec Lansing speakers installed. WAY too much of a good thing!

The first solid state amp I was exposed to was owned by a back up guitar player in my band: a 100 watt Sun through a quad cab. It was, as an old friend described it, disgustingly clean! Gawd, I hated the sound of that thing. There is clean-clean and then there is sterile-clean.

Acoustic guitars or Piezo equipped electrics are another matter, just as are keyboards and steel guitar. For the latter, it's hard to beat an old Twin Verb. Though that was yesterday. Dunno what today's steel players are using.

Last I heard, these damned young punks came out with something called Casette Players. Whyyy, I remember back in the days when I played through my daddy's hi fi. eeyep, dems were da daze.......... what's for dinner?

 

[Spudmurphy]

Last I heard, these damned young punks came out with something called Casette Players. Whyyy, I remember back in the days when I played through my daddy's hi fi. eeyep, dems were da daze.......... what's for dinner?

That post brought back a load of memories!!

I played in a club in Cardiff for many years back in the 70's and I had a 100 watt Laney Clipp amp - man that had so much saturation. If you happened to be stood "in the flame" of the speaker cab it made your ears bleed !!
I was told by the other band members to get rid of it so I downsized to a Marshall 50 head.

It was your last sentence that brought a memory flooding back !!!
My Dad was into DIY HiFi and DIY.
He had made a nice modifiacion to 2 alcoves in the living room and had some concealed strip lights and eliptical speakers.

I was after plugging in my trusty Watkins Rapier 44 (4 pick ups - unheard of !!) into the hi fi but was confronted by some bare wires.

So I hooked some up to a mains plug and some up to some speaker connections.
The speakers kinda clicked a bit as 240Volts went thro them and the strip lights did their best to play some "light music" ha!

I took all plugs off and swore blind that I knew nothing about why they would not work when he hooked them up.
I guess Dad (an old drummer with an amazing snare technique) is looking down on me now - "Yes Dad it was me!"
Good one Candid-x 'cos that memory had slipped away and is now back with me.
Spud

 

[Bungo]

Crikey! I think there's a few shared experiences here!

I remember plugging my Fender Musicmaster into my Dad's Hi-Fi when my parents were out once (circa 1979/80) and blowing up one of his speakers.

I used to plug it into a microphone input on the cassette deck and then press Play and Record to route the sound through to the speakers.

I think I blamed it on playing 'Metal Rendezvous' by Krokus too loudly!

Again, sorry to my Dad (great trombone player) who I'm sure is looking down on me as well.

PS Just to bring back on topic, clean to me = The intro to Dream Theaters 'Pull Me Under'. No grit or crunch at all. Sparkly tone, plenty of sustain with a bit of chorus, reverb and JPs talent!

 

[candid_x]

We give new meaning to "bad boys of rock and roll".

I read once where Frank Zappa's first stage amp was a Harman Kardon hi-fi stereo amp.

 

[Spudmurphy]

We give new meaning to "bad boys of rock and roll".

I read once where Frank Zappa's first stage amp was a Harman Kardon hi-fi stereo amp.

From one bad boy to another ..

My first proper amp was an Impact 60 watt tube amp bought from a "dive" of a club. - needless to say that it didn't last long and fried!!!

My local music shop gave me a good trade in when I bought the HH 100 watt which was sold and I moved onto the Laney Clipp through a sound City 4 x 12 and reflex horn - it was a PA cab really!!

Then a Marshall 50 head (my best amp ever and fried by my mate ) through a 60's 4 x 12 Marshall slanted front cab
Replaced with another Marshall 50 head through a Fender 2 x 12 cab. Then a Burmann (Britains answer to the Measa) then my current amp a Marshall 50 combo.

Thats it in over 30 years!! So BP - don't get expecting me to change my EB - you can see how long I keep my guitars/amps!!!
Spud

 

[candid_x]

Spud,

H/H, was that made by Laney? My current Laney LC50 combo came with H/H speakers. I've replaced it. Not very smooth but classic Brit top and bottom end. I’m pretty stuck on these Laneys, though I know other models sound entirely different.

Bet that old Marshall 50 was a great sounding amp. Was that point-to-point wired?

 

[Spudmurphy]

Spud,

H/H, was that made by Laney? My current Laney LC50 combo came with H/H speakers. I've replaced it. Not very smooth but classic Brit top and bottom end. I’m pretty stuck on these Laneys, though I know other models sound entirely different.

Bet that old Marshall 50 was a great sounding amp. Was that point-to-point wired?

I didn't know the history behind H/H but have discovered that they were originally a company situated in Cambridge, UK. They developed these solid state amps that were clear as a bell. They were very popular for PA use and we had a H/H 500 watts rms per channel PA rig in the 70's which for small clubs was immense.
We were talking about 2000 watts being used for outdoor concerts at the time !!

I didn't know it but yes Laney took over H/H, and I only noticed after my initial post that you are running Laney gear- great gear. That 100 Laney amp I had was incredibly loud - no wonder Tonni Iommi from Black Sabbath was using them at the time !!!

The Marshall 50 I had was THE best amp I have had and I wish I still had it.
Although it was a 50 watt amp it was in a 100 watt head (case) with the extra grill on the top.

I'm sure some Marshall afficianado would know what I'm on about. It was point to point and sounded at times like I was playing an Oboe - wierd!

My current Marshall doesn't compare but for a tiny (but heavy) combo copes,even more so as I run my Pod XT via the return loop using the Marshall as a tube power amp.

I'm hankering after a hand built 18 watt amp built by a mate in Cardiff - who knows maybe one day!!
Spud

 

[candid_x]

Spud,

I’m not familiar with Cardiff, but I’ve lost my enthusiasm for low powered amps, just as I have for alnico speakers. They sound great playing alone but in a band/jam setting they lack the weight, though not necessary the volume or even the headroom, to push through. But maybe that’s just my ears. Actually, not even ears so much as gut, which is where I like to hear my guitar tone.

Oboe, I can hear that. The classic Marshall had unique sound to them. They had scooped mids but not the kind I hear today. More that of a husky human voice.

My first rig was a Gibson 330 with P90’s played either through an Ampeg Gemini II or Fender Bassman. Later I used a Black Finger (Hendrix) compressor, which gave a striking and beautiful flute/trumpet tone played through the Bassman. As an old horn player, I felt right at home with it. Wore the frets and part of the rosewood board off that guitar. I won’t tell you about the piece of crap Custom Tele w/buckers I got after selling the Gibby, other than to say it was nowhere and sounded like everything and nothing – zero character. Promptly sold it and got a used standard Tele, which by comparison was sweet as candy. Guessing it was about a 1967-72, clear blonde finish over ash. Can’t even imagine what that Gib and Tele would fetch today.

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[Spudmurphy]

The Gibson 330 was a great guitar - the other guitarist had one but it met an untimely end when a pa cab got pushed over onto it!!!

I played mainly straight into the Marshall without any effects - I did dabble for a while with a MXR phaser and a Jim Bean Voicebox(which I sold last year to fund my AL).

However I wouldn't be without my POD !!

The 18 watt amp is a hoot and miked up sounds great - but theres nothing like getting some air moving with a high powered tube amp that's for sure.

I also had a 69 Gibson SG - man I wish I still had that now.

Anyways here's a real old photo taken in about '75 when I (and BP) still had a lot of hair.

Spud

 

[robelinda2]

Nice one!!!!!!

 

[candid_x]

From around the same time as Spud’s picture, 1975 or so. The Rolling Stone bit is just a spoof, a little humorous graphic work by the other guitar player’s daughter. I’m the one on the left.

View attachment 2673

 

[Spudmurphy]

Ha !! That is brilliant!!!

 

[Bungo]

Anyways here's a real old photo taken in about '75 when I (and BP) still had a lot of hair.

Spud

Wow! Didn't you used to be in Uriah Heep?

 

[Spudmurphy]

Wow! Didn't you used to be in Uriah Heep?

Ssssshhh !!
Another Cardiff boy was - John Sloman.