Customer Service Question

[Big Poppa]

Devnor
Where was the jab other than your posts.

In your first post of this thread you alluded to having left us over the jp problem when you took your time getting the problem solved. If that is a jab then so be it.

here is what we are doing for you:

Fixing the guitar.

making a change in the manufacturing process so this top coat build issue is solved permantly.

getting the guitar back to you as soon as possible.

Plese let me know what else we can do.

 

[kbaim]

Koogie the Diplomat??

Now I have to rethink everything!

 

[Norrin Radd]

As a guy who worked for 8 years on the retail/sales end of the equation, I found that the root of most customer service issues arise on the sales floor. A lot of sales people are ill-equipped from an information base to adequately address customer concerns. For example, let's say your sales force does not know that flamed maple necks are random and a customer decides they want to order a guitar with a flamed maple neck and the sales person assures them that the guitar will be every bit as nice as the one in the store, and then when it arrives and it does not meet the customer's expectations, who is to blame? Easy, the salesperson for not informing the customer that, "hey, your neck might not look like that one, so don't place the order if you're not willing to take that risk". So the customer then leaves thinking, "that dang company, they are inconsistent and don't even deliver what I ordered!"

See the problem? The manufacturer is now taking it on the chin for the sales person not doing their job! And considering I was a salesperson at a large music retailer for 8 years, I feel qualified in determining what a salesperson's responsibilities are. And most of them are failing miserably at doing it.

Blame can also be placed at the feet of customer's who have unrealistic expectations about what they are purchasing. Ever see anyone go into an Exxon station and demand a refund because they only got 22 MPG on the last tank as opposed to 24? No. Why? Expectations. For some reason, when the price of an item reaches a certain level, people feel entitled to "squeak" and try and get greased. Maybe I'm just bitter from my past experiences, but I place the greatest problems with customer service (in this industry) at the feet of the front line sales people and the customers (who get misinformed by those sub-par salespeople).

BP - you've got better things to do! It's an amazing treat for all of us that you even take the time to appear on the forum at all (not to mention that you are here on an almost daily basis! Damn!!) So please, go find a way to bring back blue dawn so I can finally order that AL I've been dreaming about!

 

[Mobay45]

It does seem that the "squeaky wheel gets the grease" most of the time.

I work in a very CS concious business. It seem to me that the louder some customers get, the more they get. But there are those times when the customer just goes too far and we shake their hand and wish them well with wherever they decide to take their business, but we won't be doing business with them anymore.

Most customers are reasonble, nice people that are a pleasure to do business with. But when the time comes to release one from the "obligation" of doing business with you, they become someone elses nightmare.

I know of one customer in particular who's demands were way above what anyone could deliver. The last time we repaired his car, we asked him to take his business elsewhere the next time he needed body repairs. I have since heard that the shop he chose to use has also "fired" him as a customer.

I understand that products and services are expensive and the consumer has a right to demand a reasonable level of satisfaction, but a handful of them expect to get way more that can be delivered for the price paid. Compare it to someone getting into a taxi cab and expecting to get the same service they would get if they had hired a limo. It ain't gonna happen!

 

[koogie2k]

Koogie the Diplomat??

Now I have to rethink everything!

LOL...not so much a diplomat. I just think that people need to stop, look and listen. Believe me, and you know, I was in "Customer Service". However, my "service" was not usually beneficial to the "customer". Big Poppa can handle himself, but, if need be, I can certainly put things into perspective in an effort to support him. This is not a perfect world and quite frankly, Big Poppa and all at EBMM are trying to make it that way with their business. There will be bumps along the road, but, all in all, they are what other companies should try to become.

Seriously, Big Poppa literally asked me 100's of times as to how my Open House experience was going when I was there. He cares. He made sure we had lunch (at this expense), drinks, the tour, the Open House Shirts, picks, strings, artists, and he probably paid God Almighty himself to ensure the weather was beautiful....all in his effort to show us the greatest time of our lives. He and EBMM did just that. He looks at the forum to see what is going on and it pains him to see a problem. Even if it is something he has nothing to do with.

The people who complain in an ill manner probably have never met him to see his gracious side. He lives life, loves his family, loves the music, and he loves us! He tries to make sure even the people who are nasty to him and his staff are taken care of!

It just grates me when he or his staff (whom I have met) are treated with insults, curses and just plain old rudeness......I can't stand that. I have seen the worse side of people and a guitar issue is not the end of the world.....EBMM will fix it and make you happy! Make sure you post that you are happy when the Customer Service Dept helps you out and makes things right!

Sorry, rant over.

 

[beej]

Wow, great post Koogs- couldn't agree more!

I'd love to hear people talk about their GREAT experiences with customer service as they happen.

 

[ernie1966]

Fixing the guitar.

making a change in the manufacturing process so this top coat build issue is solved permantly.

getting the guitar back to you as soon as possible.

Plese let me know what else we can do.

I think you just anwsered your own question with this statemnet, BP. You fix the problem the best way you can in a reasonable time frame and hope the customer will be patient and realize you are doing all you can to resolve his/her problem. In the end you are running a business and if you bend over backwards for every cry baby and whiner it will eventually cut into your your bottom line because of time and effort consumed pleasing a few. I think you are also taking the chance that all the resources wasted pleasing the whiners might adversly effect the overwhleming majority of customers you do please. (i.e. production delays and such)

 

[jeffrey]

You and Jeffrey have the same problem. There was too much top coat on your headstocks and the touching wasnt wood but the finish. Unnacceptable however.

Ahhhh, so that's what caused it! It really didn't matter to me either way, but I was having tuning problems, the low B/E were going sharp and the G wasn't sitting right in the nut.

I will admit, I posted about it right away, but I should've called CS first. Then again, it was way after hours when I got the guitar so I couldn't anyway.

Regardless... I didn't mean to step on any toes BP and I think I apologized to you about 700 times.

I left it with Jon at the Open House knowing well that whatever caused it would be fixed.

I don't get why people get rude and complain though. I mean, think about my situation for a second. Azia spent 45 minutes on the phone with me on two seperate occasions (yes I thanked her at the Open House for it!) giving me a list of dealers that had recently recieved JP7's. Then I called all over the place trying to get one that had the options I needed (most were special orders/spoken for). I FINALLY found one and when I get it, the nut's messed up.

I didn't freak out, what's the point in that? I just figured I'd ask on the boards since you guys are so active here anyway. Doing that without asking CS first was my fault, but I still had no reason to be a jerk about it. I knew BP, Dudley and crew would take care of it if it was indeed a warranty issue (they did and are).

I have the utmost respect for BP, Dudley and everyone that works at EB. They go out of their way to build fantastic guitars at reasonable prices and treat their customers incredibly well.

I think the Open House speaks volumes about that.

 

[GHWelles]

At the open house event we saw the level of quality control and hands on care that goes into the construction of these MM instruments. The design of these instruments is also an evolutionary step beyond the major players in the rest of the industry.

With the obvious design and build quality it is a wonder to me there is even a need for any customer service at Ernie Ball/MM at all. What is there to complain about, really?

Here is an example. I bought a Fender Japan Strat some years ago. Fender Japan's reputation is for build quality equal to the US Custom Shop. To make the guitar usable, however, I had to do the following to it:

1. Change out the pickups and all the electronics.
2. Have the fretboard re-radiused to 10" and have the guitar refretted to get the action to an acceptable level.
3. Change the bridge out to a Callaham bridge.
4. It had Schaller locking tuners or I would have had to change that too.

Is this Strat a good guitar now? Yes. As good as the Petrucci? Not really, the Petrucci is just a better design.

So, if I had known about Music Man guitars at the time I could have bought one out of the box that was really good and didn't need any work. Instead, I bought a decent Strat, and to get it to the level of a good Strat I had to spend literally the cost of buying a whole new guitar. So, one good Strat and a lot of hassel, or two good Music Mans out of the box. You be the judge.

And this is not the only guitar I have had this experience with. I went through a similar exercise with a Jackson Soloist, and it is still just OK at this point. The Petrucci kills the Jackson, even after the Jackson was totally rebuilt by GMW Guitarworks.

The reason I went through this hassel with these guitars was I assumed that production level guitars were not going to be all that great unless you got lucky. I assumed that production level guitars would need custom work to get them to a really good level. Now that I have a Music Man it has changed my mind on this.

I wish I had known about Music Man sooner. Instead of working on already excellent customer service, how about a marketing campaing to educate the guitar buying public of the superior nature of Music Man guitars?

[PS Anybody want to buy some Jacksons? I need money to buy more Music Mans]

 

[rrhea]

Ok. First of all, it's a guitar. As important to me as my babies are, I am still able to put everything into perspective. A problem with a guitar that you paid for with your "hard earned money" doesn't mean you have to be a flaming dick to people in customer service, and especially with receptionists and the like. It's just uncalled for.

The unsual experience I had in getting my JP was a test of my patience, and the mistakes fell both on Guitar Center, who ordered it for me, and some rare defects from the EBMM factory. First, I got a really banged up floor model shipped from another store, which I promptly refused and so my local GC ordered me a factory fresh one. It arrived a few months later with a warped neck. I called and spoke with Dan MacPherson (who is AWESOME, btw), and worked with him to get the situation resolved. After getting another neck put on it they determined it, too, was warped and ordered a new one from the factory before it came back out to me. All in all it took the better part of 8 months to get the whole thing right. And they DID make it right! It's best guitar I own.

Never once did I get ****ty with GC or EBMM during the whole process. Everyone was bending over backwards to help me get this fixed, and I recognized that. One of the main reasons EBMM guitars are so great is the care they put into making each neck, each body... this requires longer turn around times than the "big guys" have and we all know it's worth it. I seriously doubt Ibanez (for example) would have caught the second warped neck, and I would have gotten the guitar back that way, again.

You can't have instant, 2 day turn around problem fixes AND great product at the price EBMM charges. It's that simple. I can't name a single company, guitar related or not, that has made me feel that my issue was so important and that I was in good hands like Dan did for me during my JP experience.

I don't want to trivialize guitar ownership, but at the end of the day it's a guitar! They are not always perfect... they are made of wood. No builder can make all of them perfect everytime... except EBMM if you give them the chance to without blowing up and freaking out!

Ryan

 

[Dodgeball]

With the obvious design and build quality it is a wonder to me there is even a need for any customer service at Ernie Ball/MM at all. What is there to complain about, really?

That's the quote to sum up my feelings!!

I have had no reason to contact CS and am thoroughly confident that I will not need to, but even if the time comes I'm sure I will be looked after because EB customer service is widely regarded as LEGENDARY.

Hmmm, How did it get this legendary status?

I don't think things have to change one little bit!

 

[shamus63]

Treat others based on the quality of their character and problem, not on the forcefullnes of their complaint.QUOTE]

I couldn't agree more! I'm also in customer service (albeit my "customers" are within my company), my department takes the same approach to taking care of our customer's problems.

Most of the problems are easy to mend, and most of the people are understanding in relation to the turn-around time it takes to take care of the issue (or fill an order). After all, each of our eight guys has an average of 430 people that we are responsible for, not to mention the unforeseen occurances that happen daily in a company our size (VISA Int'l). I can only imagine the amount of customer complaints that EB CS has to deal with (nothing against the products, but you get my point) with as many customers as they have.

However, you do get those that feel that their problem(s) are first-priority...

...those are the ones we put at back of the line...within reason.

We're all customers to somebody, but I'll be the first to say "The Customer Isn't Always Right". Been wrong many-a-time as a customer...but I'm learning.

BTW, this in no way is a slur on my part at anybody on this forum, just a general dialogue.

The EB CS staff is doing a great job!

"If It Ain't Broke, Don't Fix It!"

 

[Funky Chicken]

Pretty much every CS issue I have been on either side of was the result of poor communication between parties. If you have a clear policy that each and every employee communicates to each and every customer in the same exact way 100% of the time, there really isn't any more you can do as a company.

I think there's a special challenge for a company that operates in any industry with the positioning that Music Man has. The Music Man product attracts serious musicians (or people who fancy themselves as serious musicians). We are all touched in the head to varying degrees-we are not what I'd call an easy customer on our best day. You offer many 'signature' models, which suggests to potential buyers that you spent a lot of time fine tuning designs with the artist(s) until things were 100% perfect. You have an unusually high percentage of guitars/basses being built for customers who spent months agonizing over finishes/pickguard colors as opposed to walking in and buying off the rack-and let's face it, this forum just feeds that machine. You're too big to do business like a boutique operation, but not big enough for your customers to expect mediocre customer service. If I were to buy a new Gibson (AACK!) and I had done ANY research into their QC and CS practices, I would pretty much figure going in that the company doesn't really give a rat's ass about my purchase, so I wouldn't be disappointed if that turned out to be the case. In the case of your company, BP, the whole company goes out of its way to make its customers feel really important, so the expectation is that if you were to call customer service the person on the other end of the phone was just sitting there waiting for forum members to call up with their little niggly problems. You guys are victims of the great job you do and the way your customers (us) feel about you and your products.

I'm reasonably certain that 99% of the customers that you have been unable to satisfy over the years were unsatisfiable. I'd just keep doing what you're doing, and make sure nobody in CS is overpromising/underdelivering.

 

[Spudmurphy]

Lets have a dialogue



Should EBMM respond greater to a customer because someone complains the loudest?

Should I make exceptions in customer service becasue someone has demanded to talk to me?

I want your thoughts......I want customer service to bend over backwards within reason on be fair to all......But I think that many customers think that we should play favorites

BP has asked for dialogue on this and people are certainly giving the 2 pence/cents worth.

In my workplace my staff know what decisions they can / cannot make.
The "scope" of their work is well documented as I work in a UK Governmental department.
If people have a grievance they don't go straight to Tony Blair they follow a well worn route that has to be cost effective, fair to all, whilst giving satisfaction to the customer.
I'm sure that the EB CS team don't go straight to BP in all grievances but may very well have to in some cases.

Customer facing staff in my department have attended courses and I have delivered training courses in dealing with aggressive customers and I would be willing to come over and deliver such a course (only joking!!).


Customer Service is the route to take if the dealer who sold you the guitar in the first place can't d/w the issue and I trust that this is communicated to the customer. Does it say this in the blurb that goes out with a new EB guitar - I'm still a EB virgin at the mo???

People join this forum because they have a love of guitars/music and will naturally talk about both good aspects of their EB and things they have issues with. They might not have bought the guitar new but still expect an answer to their query.

Maybe on joining the forum an automatic e mail is issued advising that the "new forum member" initially checks out the FAQ's (hyperlink perhaps to the current FAQ section, and maybe a directive about "if someone has a beef about their gear then the route to follow is to CONTACT CUSTOMER SERVICE FIRST ooopps sorry to shout!..... maybe a hyper link to a Customer Service section via the forum?

Obviously CS to EB is paramount, hence the viewpoints requested by BP!
There's bending over but sometimes a snapping point is reached- it's a fine line that has to trodden by BP's staff.

I believe that this forum is a good tool for EB CS team which is probably why BP spends as much time as he does participating in it.

I'm not here to bad mouth other manufacturers but I'm telling you now, I have not experienced them offering this type of customer support via a forum.


So another reason for me to order my EB AL !!

Keep it going EB - but it must cost one hell of a lot in resources!!!

 

[PeteDuBaldo]

BP/Sterling

Devnor had issues with the dealer he purchased the guitar from not returning his calls, emails, letting him know when his instrument would be arriving, and then not shipping his instrument after they had already processed his credit card.

I spoke with him on this subject a few times, and offered to order the same instrument for him, and even suggested that he give a heads-up to customer service. When his guitar finally arrived from the dealer it was in less than the condition which he expected, so naturally he was upset.

He decided to stay with ErnieBall MusicMan, and ordered a Silhouette Bass through me, which has just been started only 4 weeks after placing the order. I think that's awesome, sometimes these things just happen to fly through the assembly line, much like kbaim's Luke did that he picked up at the Open House (6 weeks delivery)

Hopefully Devnor's experience with me is better than his last dealer experience.

I can understand all sides of all parties involved, as a business owner, as the person receiving the phone calls in customer service, and as a person calling customer service when upset (never called EB that way )

I think that sometimes a few deep breaths are in order for all sides, and then take a fresh look at the situation.

It's not my place to say who is right or wrong, but I will say that the few times which I have needed to speak to someone in customer service @ EB, they have been simply THE BEST people to deal with.

Thanks for running a company who cares, from the bottom all the way to the top

 

[NorM]

On the two occasions I have had to call your CS department (Real reasons mind you not just to flirt with Aziah) I tried to do it anonymously as far as the forum was concerned. I did this because I was setting you up. To either succed or slam. Well you blew me away. Please see the post:
The Apple of Dis-Chord is no more

Things I have figured out:
The deal isn't over until the customer is dead.
The customer doesn't knowwhat they want.
Some people always get bad service in resturaunts.
Worrying about things out of my control is pointless. I have no control over what you think or feel. All I can do is react and/or understand.
I wish more poeple would tell me to shut the hell up because I don't know what I am talking about.

 

[Devnor]

Thanks Pete...thats the gist of it. First of all the guitar was already on order when I initially inquired. I never pressured anyone to deliver the guitar, I just needed to know when. Didnt matter if it was 5 days or 5 months. I was asked to put down a deposit and gave my CC but no charges were ever run. No written confirmation that this one was mine meanwhile a few very nice available JP7s were being sold. When the issue was discovered it was initially suggested by the dealer that EBMM would send a replacement nut & have a luthier in Dallas install it. Clearly that wasnt the fix thus the comment on these forums about returning the guitar. Eventually I hooked up with Dan (very frustrated at this point) and started the RMA process.

I'm sure the dealer is a fine upstanding company but sometimes things fall thru the cracks. Unfortunately it was me & the JP7 situation. They couldnt predict that but they could have communicated a bit better.

This brings me to my initial post on this topic. I quietly moved on to Dubaldo. This stuff happens! I'm still using your strings and plan to purchase a JP6 once the Sil Bass is out of the way.

I'm not pressuring EBMM to rush out the repair; take the time you need to make it right.

 

[fsmith]

I'm a little late to the party to today, but just wanted to send along a few thoughts.

Should EBMM respond greater to a customer because someone complains the loudest?

Hell no. There's absolutely no reason for anyone to be pain in the ass. If you've ever dealt with EBMM customer service you should know this, and if you've been around the forum for any amount of time, ditto. There's none better out there.

Should I make exceptions in customer service becasue someone has demanded to talk to me?

Are they an endorsed artist? Sorry, call 1 (866) 823-2255. You will be taken care of as if you were an endorsed artist.

I want your thoughts......I want customer service to bend over backwards within reason on be fair to all......But I think that many customers think that we should play favorites

Based on what their post counts? Sorry, I'd say don't change a thing BP. The system you have in place works. I can vouch for that first hand with the warranty issue I had on my Petrucci. It was handled quickly, efficiently and professionally.

One thing I will add though is that sometimes someone will come to the forum with what seems like a legitimate question for help and they are told to call CS and not discuss it first. I thought that the Gear Talk > Music Man Guitars section was a place for those sorts of questions. I'm not questioning your reasons, there just seems to be a fine line between a valid question and a question that shouldn't be asked. (Maybe it's how the question is posed?)

And I think it people should spend some time reading the FAQ's, and do a search first before asking something that might have been covered ad nauseum. (sparkle finishes anyone?)

BP keep up the good work... I really appreciate the interaction from everyone at EBMM.

thanks,
fred

 

[Warg Master]

Devnor,

Thanks for your post. seriously.

You and Jeffrey have the same problem. There was too much top coat on your headstocks and the touching wasnt wood but the finish. Unnacceptable however.

You first posted a complaint on 9-13, and then continued to threaten to put the guitar away, claim people were getting hosed and, threaten a refund.

We finally got your guitar back YESTERDAY. Jon and Dudley are conferring right now. There are several possible fixes and I don't like the one that was picked. Your and Jeffreys guitars will be made right and I have instructed engineering to make a small diagonal cut on future JP necks to avoid the top coat issue.

As far as having to wait for your guitar, that is part of the deal and you were aware of it. As far as there being a problem we all feel bad about it and will do our best to make it right, even if we have lost you.

It is my position that things can go wrong and when they do I try to give the offending party the opportunity to rectify the problem.

This is why you shouldn't change a damn thing.

EDIT: OOOPPPS!!!

 

[shamus63]

This is why you should change a damn thing.

Should...or shouldn't?