Ernie Ball Music Man JP6 Restoration Project!

[jamminjim]

Spud says but I'm still not 100% convinced you are doing the right thing in using a different wood for the dowel and also using a dowel that is cut "end grain on" ?

Yes, but Spud..... where is a guy going to get a basswood cross-cut dowel?
He'd have to make one from a basswood blank. I don't even know where one would get a piece of similar basswood. Maybe EBMM.

I'm thinking maybe use a hardwood dowel. Maybe a birch dowel. I think if the end of the dowel is sanded and sealed well there shouldn't be a problem with it.

 

[the24thfret]

I think if the end of the dowel is sanded and sealed well there shouldn't be a problem with it.

Agreed.

 

[Spudmurphy]

I'm passing on the tips I got from a luthier of 30 years experience who repairs "basket case" guitars.

Basswood can be obtained from a number of stockists in the USA/Canada
Here's one
Welcome to www.mtalbert.com
End grain can be prone to shrinkage - it's not a question of sealing the grain - its all about shrinkage I bleeb?
If you were cutting dowels for any home wood/carpentry projects would you contemplate using a different wood species?

I'm not speaking from any personal experience - just passing on some hints from a pro.

 

[jamminjim]

Well - doesn't shrinkage happen to woods from drying out? If so, then he could take the "birch" dowel and put it in the oven on 200 degrees for the night. Shrink/dry it. Buy it a little oversize and dry it, then sand it to fit.
I'd think the wooden dowels are already made from a dried piece of wood. Who knows though?

Just thinking out loud.

 

[the24thfret]

Whatever way, it'd be important to research and make sure the wood won't change in any way over time while in the guitar. I figure if it was sealed completely it'd be fine, but I'm no craftsman or scientist.

 

[Dizzy]

This is an great thread.


After seeing the naked pics I reckon if there was any way you could conceal the patched holes etc, I'd be going for a stained / oiled finish.

It would be one very cool & unique JP

 

[MusicManJP6]

Man, now that you have it down to bare wood the sky is the limit! Do you leave it natural as Spud suggested, or do you go with some sweet finish?!! If you can get all the remnants of paint off completely then i'd leave it natural!

 

[Spudmurphy]

^
Natural Nope not my suggestion, as the dowel repair would show up.
I think a respray in white would look really nice?

 

[YtseJam92]

I'd do your own original color. One that you couldn't order...

 

[bkrumme]

I say...

Mystic Dream with GHOST FLAMES

 

[YtseJam92]

lol

 

[Sticky1973]

I'd love to see an alternative flip-flop colour attempt !

Flip paint black/silver would be a nice take on the Music Man theme, whilst echoing the old JPM100P3 look.

I'd do your own original color. One that you couldn't order...

I take it that would look like the Mystic Dream, only silver and black?

Yup, I think a black/silver Mystic Dream styled finish would be fantastic; individual, yet in keeping with the EBMM theme.

 

[Morbid]

Wow, sorry guys. I haven't touched the guitar since the last update, lol. I'm now at a really tedious part of the restoration, and have been waiting until I felt up to the challenge ahead, as I don't want to screw up now. I'll get back into it soon, though.
In the meantime, I've got some replies to answer to, hehe.

Wow. Continues to look great. Can't wait for paint!

You and me both. My only fear is the patchwork showing up like it did before, but that's a large part of why I'm taking my time and waiting until I feel ready to keep going, so I don't halfass it.

Great thread. How sweet would a butterscotch JP look?

It's funny you mention that, actually. I while back I did some EBMM JP Picasso designs on photoshop, and I did a Butterscotch Picasso.

I think it looks warm. And tasty...mmm.

You are doing an amazing job man. I wish I was as talented at things like this as you are, unfortunately all my talent went into computer related jobs rather then working with my hands.

Best of luck with getting this done, I know I will be following it all the way to the end

Thank you sir! Don't knock the computer thing, though. I'm a tech on the side as well For now, the guitar stuff is just for fun...but it's the real jobs that make me the money to have this fun, hehe.

It's looking good.- but I'm still not 100% convinced you are doing the right thing in using a different wood for the dowel and also using a dowel that is cut "end grain on" ?

Regarding the Piezo cavity where the previous guy "feathered" the cavity to help in losing the witness mark when the top coat of paint is sprayed on, you may consider routing the top lip out to the perimeter of the feathering and making a larger plastic cover to go on the back - a lot more work I guess.

Still it's only suggestions on my part - which I guess is what yer after?

Kind of like has already been mentioned, it's far more difficult for me to find a dowel like you're speaking of rather than just make due with what I have. For what it's worth, my good friend in Pennsylvania has assured me that using this dowel in the fashion I intend to will bring good results. He's been rebuilding and refinishing bodies for years as well, so I can only assume he would know also. He was actually the one who told me NOT to use Car Bondo. He was right when he said the bondo wouldn't shrink or expand, but the guitar would. He found that out the hard way and had to start from scratch on his own project. PC Woody is your friend, lol.

I also assumed that was why the guy feathered the cavity, but I'm pretty sure I've got a good plan on how to rebuild that area without having to route it out any bigger. When I order the piezo cavity cover, I'm going to cut out a stiff cardboard version of it, place it in there, and rebuild the PC Woody around it. That'll allow me to tear the cardboard piece away when the wood filler has dried, and I'll just sand the excess away. Should work.

This is an great thread.


After seeing the naked pics I reckon if there was any way you could conceal the patched holes etc, I'd be going for a stained / oiled finish.

It would be one very cool & unique JP

Man, now that you have it down to bare wood the sky is the limit! Do you leave it natural as Spud suggested, or do you go with some sweet finish?!! If you can get all the remnants of paint off completely then i'd leave it natural!

Like Spud said, the dowel repair will show up. However, I HAD considered painting the front of the guitar, but leaving the contours natural...like a big binding, but that was until I came up with a paintjob idea I liked, which will be unveiled later. I might try that idea with an OLP though, just for fun.

Yup, I think a black/silver Mystic Dream styled finish would be fantastic; individual, yet in keeping with the EBMM theme.

I'd also love to see a black/silver Mystic Dream finish...in fact, I looked! I couldn't find one though. Perhaps I was looking in the wrong places? If anyone has a link to a Black & Silver Mystic Dream, shoot the link my way, I'd like to scope that out.


I contacted Ernie Ball to ask them for price checks on the parts. Mr McPherson got back to me with price checks.

Here's what I need and what they'll cost;

Whammy Bar - M05437 $15
The Rubber Knob Pieces - MJ303W $4
Piezo Backplate - MJ724W $6
Tremelo Claw, Scews & Springs - probably about $10 altogether
Neckplate Screws - M05194 $3
Backplate Screws (for all cavities) -part MD318W $.25 each screw

So I'm looking at around $41 worth of parts I need...that's a little disappointing, as I thought most of these missing parts would come with the guitar lol
Oh well, though.

Also, for anyone wondering, here's the part number and price for the knobs; M05166 $8.50

 

[Morbid]

GHWelles & the24thfret:
I wanted to post this link for you guys, for whoever got to it first. Spotted this on ebay and thought of you guys

Dimarzio John Petrucci Neck and Bridge Pickups - eBay (item 130301980076 end time Apr-29-09 17:52:59 PDT)

 

[ScoobySteve]

I am amazed at your work. Talk about JP6 to the most "personal" of set ups.

Awesomesauce

 

[the24thfret]

GHWelles & the24thfret:
I wanted to post this link for you guys, for whoever got to it first. Spotted this on ebay and thought of you guys

Dimarzio John Petrucci Neck and Bridge Pickups - eBay (item 130301980076 end time Apr-29-09 17:52:59 PDT)

Ooo nice! THanks for the heads up! I only really want the bridge though... hmmm

 

[Morbid]

Brief update time.
We'll call this a bit of a venting time, also. You'll see why at the end of the post.

So the neck arrived today. We'll just skip to the good part, which is the pictures.

Don't try this at home kids...

Nicely packaged...that's a nice thing to see...

Time for a closer look.

I'm really impressed with the amount of Birdseye...
Too bad I'll be painting the headstock...

Nice flame and birdseye all the way down, as well as nice rosewood...

But of course, there had to be a let down, right?

When inspecting the back of the headstock, I noticed what appeared to be filled holes, and clean holes...

Sure enough, with the neck put together, you can see that there were clearly new holes drilled for different tuners.

I went ahead and screwed the tuners in to get the original holes back...may as well end that right away, right?

Just for haha's I took this picture to see what the guitar would look like all done natural.

It's nice, but I don't think it's what I'd want to go with, even if I could. Not at this point anyway.

Now it's time to vent, I guess.

I haven't touched this project because I haven't felt compelled to do so yet, and I've wanted to wait until I was inspired and fresh to continue, as I'm not overly fond of drilling and filling. Having the neck arrive today, I was hoping I would feel more inspired about the project, but instead I'm kind of let down.
Granted, the new holes in the back of the headstock is no big deal, but it really is just one more thing.

Allow me to explain again, that this was supposed to be an affordable way for me to end up with a Music Man JP6. My intention was to restore it, and customize it in a CLEAN way, hopefully upping the value of the guitar as well, considering it's been DEVALUED with the 'mods' done to it.
Now at this point, I'm a little more than put off.
I've found several things that were never mentioned in the auction description which means I never thought I'd run into these issues.
The relocation of the pickup switch, the poor work done on the painting (finding the original carbon blue under the metallic green), pieces missing (rubber knob pieces cut in half, Tremelo Claw, Scews & Springs, Neckplate Screws, Backplate Screws for all cavities, and the wrong volume and tone pots being sent). The only thing missing that I KNEW was missing was the Whammy Bar. Without getting back the original Volume and Tone pots, I'm already looking at a $41 bill plus shipping, because I'm also ordering another piezo backplate. At least I didn't expect THAT to come with it.
Now there is the fact that there are holes in the back of the headstock that really don't belong. Now my good deal doesn't feel like such a good deal anymore, as I can only imagine I'm going to have almost $150 invested into this guitar when it's done, when you count chemicals, glue, filler, sandpaper, paint, parts, etc.

Now, I DID purchase this guitar for $650, but I really didn't see all of this hell coming out of this project. I'm no expert, but with all the changes made to this guitar already, I can only imagine that even if I do all of the work flawlessly, and restore this thing to it's peek, sans the body work, the value of the guitar STILL won't be what it should be. In fact, I get the distinct feeling that when all is said and done, the value of the guitar will be just a little over what I've got into it, if that. That having been said, a large part of me almost feels like this should have been a $550 guitar project, not $650.

Here's the auction link so ya guys can scope it out for yourselves.
Ernie Ball Music Man Petrucci guitar project piezo - eBay (item 220383137163 end time Mar-25-09 00:13:08 PDT)

So yeah...I guess I need some inspiration to keep going on this. And yes, I know it's not all supposed to be about the value of the guitar, but how it plays and sounds, but for what that's worth, I've got guitars that sound and play the way I want them to already, ya know?

Anyway, it's no one's problem but my own, but I felt the need to vent my disappointments a little.

 

[Dizzy]

Don't give up mate - with the time you've put into this project and the quality work you're doing, it'd be sad to see it abandoned.

Then again, if you're purely looking at your $$$ value for resale, you might need to re-prioritize.

Honestly though, if I were to put that much time and thought into doing a custom restoration, there's NO way I'd sell it
- so the final $$$ value becomes irrelevant. (unless it becomes ridiculously expensive)

The costs you've mentioned still give you a finished product for around $800
- that's still pretty darn good - and it'll be a one-off !

(EDIT : was the neck price included in the Ebay BIN Price of $650??)

Regarding the ebay auction, I reckon you've got every right to claim a partial refund from the seller.
They've clearly stated that the ONLY thing missing was the whammy.
Send them an email, with a quote for all of the other parts and see what they have to say.

Hell, send them a link to this thread !!

You can even complain about some of the other issues that you didn't expect. The best thing is you've got it all clearly documented with some great pics and step by step progress reports.

If they're a fair seller, I reckon you'll have no probs getting a partial refund to cover your additional expenses.

Kepp going mate, you've got plenty of people's attention here - and we're all keen to see the finished product !

 

[Sticky1973]

.... you've got plenty of people's attention here - and we're all keen to see the finished product !

Just to echo Dizzy, this is a project where you have already seen off the worst.

More than that though, it's a guitar project. The return will come surely in the playing of it. Added to that, the satisfaction you'll have knowing that you were responsible for restoring essentially a collection of parts back to the great guitar it once was.... and then some.

Work to your own timescale, and tweak the axe to your preferences.

Dig in fella, keep the prospect of playing with fresh strings in mind.

 

[mesavox]

The stuff missing is frustrating, but you can tell by looking, and other things about the auction mention that the switch was moved. I'm not sure if you meant you were surprised by that or not... Also... it is going to be hard to get a refund because he states very plainly that it is a project guitar and NOT a complete guitar. I think you should just chalk this one up to ask more questions next time-ville...

As for what you are going through... and maybe you did this, but it seems like it would have been a good idea to link to this and see what people thought here before you bought it. I don't know if it's overpriced or not... I mean, it's still an EB... just an extra hole and the worst paint job ever to put on such a nice guitar.

The paint is something I would call the guy about. Just to tell him how stupid it is... Who in the world paints over paint on a guitar? LOL Maybe some people just shouldn't be allowed to buy such a nice guitar in the first place.

I would do this... Fill the hole, put it back together, get the bar and the bits n pieces... and look at it. Then play it for a while. See if you get any brainstorms, but get some playing out of it. Stripped naked it's a better guitar than a lot of people have. Maybe you have some other nice pickups laying around? See what different things might sound like in it. You never know.. you might end up like EVH (I know, but I'm going WAY back here lol) with the Frankenstein... I mean, would you be as inclined to see how an EVO or PAF Pro sound in it if it was in perfect condition?

I'd spend a year or so with it. I say this because, if it was mine I would see what putting the old old JP pickups in it would do... SS and Air Norton, not the modified ones. But, I know I want that. So, I'd try to make that happen aside from something like this. That is, I'd start seeing what I'd do if I were endorsed... as David St Hubbins says... "...and why not?" LOL Heck, stick a sustainer in the neck... see if you can find out a way to make it synth access... who knows. Be creative.

I would.

You've already done so much and got it so much more healthy than it was. At least now it can stretch without a straight jacket of crappy paint job. LOL