Ernie Ball Music Man JP6 Restoration Project!

[Spudmurphy]

Welcome back to the forum - I'm glad that you managed to find the thread on the restoration of my JP, and hope it was of some use. I love that guitar and it's constantly on the stand next to my computer.

I'm lucky insofar as I know an excellent Luthier who makes guitars from chunks of wood, rather than just assembling parts - so I knew that I could always go to him for advice.
I also had the services of Cardiff Guitars owner - Simon who helped me with a wiring query.

if there's any photos or specs you want let me know - just remember though that it's all back together in one piece.

 

[Morbid]

Wow! Quite the amount of replies. Let's see if I can answer em all before work

Flip paint black/silver would be a nice take on the Music Man theme, whilst echoing the old JPM100P3 look.

Thank you sir! It's funny you mention the JPM look. A while back, long before this project came to be, I had photoshopped some Ernie Ball Music Man Picasso guitars, just to see how they'd look. I mentioned it to the previous owner of this guitar, and he had said that he intended on doing the exact same thing initially, before deciding to sell it. However, after I sat on thought on the process it would take, I realize that in order for the guitar to look right with the graphics, I'd also have to do a burst, so the graphics would fade into it. Courtesy of the beveled edge of the body, the graphics would end very abruptly, and wouldn't look right. So I decided to scrap that idea, and possibly try it on an OLP one day, instead of such a quality and expensive guitar.
Though I like the flip paint for black & silver. I take it that would look like the Mystic Dream, only silver and black? How would I go about that?

GOod luck and thanks for rescuing this abused puppy.....Its amazing the lack of craftmanship displayed...This "tech" really could probably tell you all about how great he is and then look at what he does to this guitar. The biggest problem with guitar techs is there is no accreditation program or certification process....Can you imagine deciding one morning, " I like smiles....Im a dentist" Or in Dizz's case I like women so Ill be a plastic surgeon!"

The regulars here can tell you how much misinformation gets pompously spewed by hack techs that know it all but have never made anything. "That piezo doesnt fit..."FORCE IT, they will never know ...thats why they make covers!"

Now before the thunder starts there are many great techs...I bring this up because the bad ones really make it bad for the good ones.

The great Sterling Ball! What a pleasure it is to have your interest in this project. I hope you approve of the end result.
I can't say anything bad about the previous owner of this guitar, as he really is a great guy, but his choice of techs for the body work could have been better. Or maybe he didn't have much of a choice, it's hard to say. Living in Daytona Beach, FL, I know there aren't a bunch of great luthiers here either.
It's kind of funny that you should post here. Initially, I was hoping to have you guys do some of the work for me, but Dan McPherson (he's been a great help to me as of late, not just with the project guitar)informed me of some policy issues in the meantime that would kind of defeat the purpose of this project (IE, having to have it painted the original color it left the factory with, having to replace the entire body in exchange for the old one, given the visibly modified condition, etc). I'm not a luthier or tech either, but I take great pride in the things I do, and since this is MY guitar, I'll be doing some research and trying my best to make it flawless. I hope you'll have the time to check out the updates as well

All the very best for the Project Morbid.. and might I add , nice hi-res pictures man.. wtg!!

Thank you! The pictures were shot with a Nikon D60. I've always felt it was important to document things in quality, both to make it enjoyable for the viewers and for the historical part of it.

Are you getting a new neck for it?

Good luck with the project, man! Looking forward to the results... (I wish I was the handy man to do stuff like that, unfortunately I'm not...)

Xander (The previous owner of the guitar)sent the neck off to a luthier a while back. The luthier has been making him some necks based upon the profile of the Music Man neck. He'll be sending the neck back to Xander as soon as he's done with it, and Xander will be shipping it to me immediately after.

Morbid, it's awesome that you are willing do bring that bad boy back to life. Props to you.

But on a side note: I can't imagine how it must feel to EBMM to see what some people do to their guitars. I mean why would you buy it the way it is (perfect) and move everything around on the guitar and pretty much ruin it? Don't get me wrong though, some big renovations like that are awesome. But what the guy did to this one......

Thanks a lot! Like I said before, it's a more affordable way to become part of the Music Man club, which I've been dying to do for years now.
As people have already stated, it really is a matter of personal preference. I've only been able to play a couple of Music Man guitars, and I haven't had any problem with the piezo switch, but it's time has only been a few minutes. However, I don't do a lot of movement when I'm playing, so I don't think it'll be an issue. Only time will tell, though. There's no Music Man dealers around here, so this is my only hope, haha.

Welcome back to the forum - I'm glad that you managed to find the thread on the restoration of my JP, and hope it was of some use. I love that guitar and it's constantly on the stand next to my computer.

I'm lucky insofar as I know an excellent Luthier who makes guitars from chunks of wood, rather than just assembling parts - so I knew that I could always go to him for advice.
I also had the services of Cardiff Guitars owner - Simon who helped me with a wiring query.

if there's any photos or specs you want let me know - just remember though that it's all back together in one piece.

Hey Spud! The main use I got from your threads was seeing that your volume pots are all the same size, and mine are not. I'm still not sure why that is, but like I said before, I'm hoping it just has to do with the difference in age between our guitars. At this particular moment, the only real thing that would help me would be to be able to look at a Music Man taken apart, so I could see if there are any differences. For example, why my piezo volume pot won't fit. I want to avoid making the hole any bigger if it isn't necessary...I'd had to modify it more than it should be. While the way the guitar plays is more important than the value of it, I'd like to try and salvage some of it's value in the meantime, and if I'm correct, the more I modify it with drilling and routing, the more the value will decrease.
However, I will probably be contacting you when it comes time to wire it all up, haha. Any other questions or problems I have along the way will be posted here, so anyone and everyone can chime in with their opinions and experiences.

Thanks again to everyone for the great interest! I feel more enthused about this project now and look forward to sharing it some more I'll try to take some pictures of the electronics either tonight or tomorrow, so you can all see what I'm talking about with the size difference in pots, and so anyone might be able to point out any irregularities to me.

Take care!

 

[Dizzy]

Can you imagine deciding one morning, " I like smiles....Im a dentist" Or in Dizz's case I like women so Ill be a plastic surgeon!"

Oi !!!

 

[phatduckk]

wow. that should be a pretty fun project.

good luck man! looking forward to seeing the progress

 

[zombi]

Nice. I saw a project axis I wanted to do but it was sold by the time I called.

 

[GWDavis28]

Morbid, I'd recommend finding an outstanding autobody shop to do the painting for you man. There are tons of very unique paints out there man, search them out and find one that makes this rescued JP your own man.

This is the place that I think did Norrins JP
Fede Designs - MULTICOLOR SWIRLS on ANYTHING! - Enter

I've heard good things about this place, a lot of people over on The Gear Forum have used them.
De Lacugo Guitars Paint prices

This place has some really interesting stuff
HouseofKolor.com online shopping from the worldwide leader in the paint and coatings industry.

Good luck with the project and can't wait to see the end result.

Glenn |B)

 

[emanon]

I can certainly understand doing some mods to a guitar but an EBMM just isn't a guitar I would do drastic mods to.

 

[Morbid]

GWDavis28: I will in fact be paying someone to do the paint for me. Great paint isn't just something you can get out of a can, especially when it comes to that nice glassy clear coat. I also think I've come up with a paint idea that I like enough to have done, but I'm gonna wait to post that idea.

Anyway, I thought I'd follow up with my updates like I promised. I've been lazy today, so I just decided to throw all of the pieces onto the guitar and take some pictures. This also helped me to see what I do, and do not have.

So far I need the following;
Whammy Bar
New Knobs
3 Tremelo Springs
Piezo Backplate
Neck Screws
A lot of patience, hehe...

So here's the pieces I've received with the guitar.

- FULL SIZE -

Here's the difference in the pot size I was talking about

I'm still not sure if this is unique just for me, or if (like I said before)it has to do with the difference in models and age.

I also have NO idea what the heck this thing is for, or where it's supposed to go, but it came with the guitar, haha

Not picture are the tuning heads that DID come with the guitar. I'm hoping to have a neck to put them on soon

When it comes time to start looking for someone to paint the guitar, I'll compile my final list of parts needed and call Ernie Ball for some price checks and orderings. I'm hoping to start chemical stripping the guitar tomorrow. Pictures will follow soon after

 

[luv]

looks like a ground wire for your patience.....

 

[Spudmurphy]

Man I forgot that this was a piezo guitar.

I'm no Electronics expert and was so lucky to have my JP's guitars wiring all in one piece.
I have to thank fellow knucklehead Fsmith who having got the guitar for me, then soldered the original neck pickup back in for me - a real pro looking job he did too!!

I'm always pestering Beej if I have a wiring query - he makes it sound oh so simple !!

Do you have the wiring diagrams? I have them in .PDF format (somewhere )if ya want them?

Also I can give you some hints/tips on rebuilding the Piezo back into the trem block if ya need it - other than that the guitar will be a great little project - one that a lot of us will like to see - and the more pictures the merrier!!

oh yeah and if you do come across the rubbers for the pot knobs - let me know where you got 'em from ?

 

[Morbid]

Do you have the wiring diagrams? I have them in .PDF format (somewhere )if ya want them?

Also I can give you some hints/tips on rebuilding the Piezo back into the trem block if ya need it - other than that the guitar will be a great little project - one that a lot of us will like to see - and the more pictures the merrier!!

oh yeah and if you do come across the rubbers for the pot knobs - let me know where you got 'em from ?

I do have some wiring diagrams. I think they came from the Ernie Ball Music Man site, actually. They're not as clearcut as I'd like though. Perhaps I'm lazy, but I like pictures, haha. Drawn or otherwise, pictures help me

The piezo bridge seems to be copasetic, but I won't know until I get everything hooked up and get to try it.
I'll also be calling Ernie Ball after the body gets closer to being done to get some price checks on pieces. The knobs/rubber pieces will be part of that list, so I'll be sure to let you know.

Anyway, it's time for an update I suppose!

My father had a guitar he had been meaning to strip for a while, and since the weather has been decent, we decided we'd strip the two guitars together.

Since both of our guitars had been refinished, we decided to go the chemical stripper route. Things start off excellent!

Here's the JP6 after the first layer of stripper was laid down. The paint seemed to bubble almost immediately.

The paint also seemed to be coming up real easy, too! Almost like pealing after a sun burn.

Things didn't stay that easy though. I soon got down to the strong protective finish under the paint, and my progress slowed to a crawl.

As if that weren't enough, while inspecting the fill in job that resembled bubblegum, I noticed something interesting...
It would appear that the guitar was never actually sanded down before being refinished. I know that seems insane, and perhaps I'm out of my mind, but I swear I see the Ernie Ball Carbon Blue paint in this picture!

That would also explain why the wood showed up there so much faster than the rest of the guitar.
Alas, I finally started to get somewhere with the rest of the stripping.

It became pretty obvious to me when I was going to get results from the scraping process, as the finish started to crack and peal all on it's own.

Here's the guitar half way through the 2nd day of stripping.

Most of the front of the guitar is done now, and the back is stripped of paint, but I couldn't get pictures because I ran out of light.
I'll try to update in a few more days, though. Hopefully it'll be time to start sanding soon, and then the body work can begin.

 

[bkrumme]

Since both of our guitars had been refinished, we decided to go the chemical stripper route.

What did you use to do this? I have a buddy who wants to refinish a guitar of his and doesn't know what to use to strip the original finish off.

 

[Ernieballplayer]

this post is exciting!!!

 

[RedRadRocker]

Nice! Its like watching a tv series haha, cant wait for the update!

 

[candid_x]

Just clear coat over this and call it done.

haha, just kidding. Thanks for sharing this daunting project here. Looking forward to seeing your progress.

 

[fbecir]

Good luck with your project !

When I heard the word "stripper", I imagined something else ...
But anyway, your project is a tough job but very interesting !

 

[Morbid]

What did you use to do this? I have a buddy who wants to refinish a guitar of his and doesn't know what to use to strip the original finish off.

I used the Professional BOTTOMLESS Strippers, of course! They're just more fun, but cost a little bit more ;D
Kidding of course.

Here ya go!

Just tell your friend to be careful...this stuff will eat you alive in a very literal sense. When you get it on you, you know it.

this post is exciting!!!

Nice! Its like watching a tv series haha, cant wait for the update!

Haha- I'm glad you guys approve! Except that unlike some of our favorite TV Series, this won't be canceled prematurely before the story is over with. On that note, I sure hope they make a Season 3 for Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles!

Just clear coat over this and call it done.

LOL- I actually said that to my father as a joke, right at about that point, too. I figured I'd call it the Vintange Music Man, hehe.

When I heard the word "stripper", I imagined something else ...

Believe me when I say, every time the words "It's time to use the stripper" come out of my mouth, I make myself sad lol


I haven't started the 'stripping' process today just yet, but I've got the table set up and the guitar brushed off a little bit. I took a couple of pictures to show you guys how things are looking.

Here's the front of the guitar as of right now

It's nice to finally see some real wood under all of that crap.

Because of all the shaping of the front of the guitar, I'm actually kind of looking forward to moving on to the back.
Speaking of the back...

Now that I'm reminded of how much work I've yet to do on the back, I'm suddenly NOT looking forward to it, haha.

When some more of the wood started to show through last night, I noticed a bit of an issue that actually made me say "uh oh".
As I've gotten around to the fill in areas, I've noticed that the putty they used isn't very substantial. Here's what I mean...one of the following is occurring here;
A. The chemical stripper I'm using is eating away at the filler material, or...
B. They used the non hardening wood putty.

I say this because as I'm scraping away the paint, wood filler is coming up, too. The filler seems to be incredibly soft, in fact, I've been considering trying to stick a nail or pencil through the piezo area, just to see if I'm right, especially since I intend on routing out that area again anyway.
But I digress...

It's difficult to tell by the pictures, but if you look closely, I think you'll be able to see what I mean.

Here's the pickup switch area...

What was once a reasonably level, bubble gum colored area, is now a darkened and sunken in area. Sunken courtesy of the scrapping process.

Here is where the piezo switch USED to be...

Again, looking closely, you can see that the area is now sunken in some. Not only that, but the white 'paint' around it, doesn't seem to want to come up. When looking at that, I noticed a familiar pattern...
Do you see what I see?

Hmmm...

According to some research, it's come up that car bondo is the best thing to use for guitar projects like this, courtesy of the fact that it won't shrink or expand...what you leave there is what will remain there. It also hardens pretty well, so I should have no problem rerouting the areas I need. I'll just have to spend some extra time sanding and making sure everything is as smooth as possible. I only want to do this once.

When it cools down a little bit here, I'll start the stripping process once again and see if I can't try to end this tonight.

 

[candid_x]

LOL- I actually said that to my father as a joke, right at about that point, too. I figured I'd call it the Vintange Music Man, hehe.

Exactly!

I never tried it, but I've read several times that a heat gun is the easiest way to remove a poly paint job.

I did the paint remover on poly once, and never again!

 

[Spudmurphy]

Hey Morbid - nice one!!

I've been watching a (very old) Fender Jaguar restoration where the previous owner had rubbed it back and resprayed it. Problem was a lot of the contours were rubbed away and the body needed repair.

My mate (a luthier) used Car filler on it and it's looking awesome now.
The only problem in using body filler is that you will have to build up a good coat of filler primer if you are using nitro celly to refinish , - this is because nitro celly sinks over the years.

Thanks for posting the pics.

 

[Morbid]

candid; I've read that myself, but the problem behind that is that I've never done it before, and there is a great chance of burning/damaging the wood for beginners.
Granted, it shouldn't matter much after the paint is done, but this guitar may very well become my pride and joy, and I'd like to do it the best way I can, even if it takes me a few months to get it done.

Spud, that's an interesting piece of information I didn't know about. I'll have to do a little more research before I settle on that idea then.