GC Pricing...your opinion!!!!!!!!!!

[roburado]

I didn't respond to Marty's original thread, because I don't buy much in the way of amps and guitars from GC. (Most of the time, GC just doesn't have what I want when it comes to items like that.) I have done it in the past, because I knew I could have some wiggle room on price. Also, I knew I had GC credit/no-interest for x number of months types of transactions. That has been the largest factor in getting me to buy something expensive at a GC. Many times, though, I won't buy stuff at GC for reasons that have nothing to do with price. So, lowest price guarantee is not really something that matters to me. Loyalty program? I don't have an opinion.

I think having some room to negotiate helped the deals when I did buy from GC. I'm not a guy who would go in and beat up the store/salesman on price. I generally ask them what kind of a deal they can do for me. If I like it, well...fine. I'll buy. If it's not such an attractive price to me, well...I might hang around and play the stuff some more to see if I'm willing to take the deal. One time, I did that and decided I was willing to do the deal, but the deal fell through for other reasons. Sometimes, I'll just walk, because the deal I was offered wasn't so attractive to me. Usually, it's for reasons that have nothing to do with price.

I bought an Ernie Ball/Music Man John Petrucci guitar and a Mesa F-30 amp the same day, because the GC worked a deal for me. I wanted the guitar. I wanted the amp, but I didn't have that kind of money. They said that I could apply for a GC card. They said that they could drop the price on the guitar to make the whole deal fit into whatever my credit limit was on that card. They worked with me without my really pushing to make a deal. They just offered it up. I took the deal. I thought that was great.

I bought a used EBMM Silo Special at the same GC. I got a good deal there, because the manager at the Southfield, MI store, Scott, knew I liked EBMMs. It was a guitar that was there for a long time. I had even passed on it before, because the set-up was so horrible. That day, it was apparent that the guitar had been worked on and set-up. It played great that day, and Scott wanted to sell it. So, he gave me a great deal. He said something like, "Just for you, I'll give you that guitar for x dollars out-the-door. Please, take it home." I thought about it for a while. Played the guitar for a while. I really had no intention to buy anything that expensive that day. I just came in to see what was new. In the end, I thought it was an extremely fair price. So, I bought it.

I do have a story of a deal that fell through for a reason that had nothing to do with price. I would have done the deal, but that particular GC dropped the ball at the Roseville, MI store. I went in there trying to buy and bass and amp. I wanted to do one of those no-interest for x months deals on my GC card. I tried to do a deal on an EBMM 30th Anniversary Sting Ray that I had been eyeing and a MarkBass combo. They told me their price. I played through the stuff to kind of think about it. I decided I was ready to do the deal. Then, the deal killer came. The 30th Anniversary Sting Ray did not have the actual 30th Anniversary Sting Ray case. The salesman brought out a regular EBMM SKB case--not the special G&G case that's supposed to come with the bass. I didn't know if he just didn't know there was a special case, or if he had to kind of cover up for there being no G&G case. I have no idea. To me, that case is an integral part of the 30th Anniversary package. They could not locate the case. Now, I don't know if he originally meant for the deal to be for bass without case, but I didn't get that impression. I thought that the price he gave me was for 30th Anniversary bass, 30th Anniversary case, and amp. Now, all of a sudden, there was no 30th Anniversary case. His price becomes the price we originally agreed upon + $9x for the SKB case. Deal dead. I can't remember if I bought the amp that day, but I eventually bought it. I never bought the bass. Negotiation would have helped make the sale, but, again, the deal died for other reasons. For reasons like those, I don't tend to buy stuff like this at GC. I rather do a deal with someone who specializes in selling EBMM instruments, especially if we're talking about a guitar that I'm going to have to special order. For me to buy a special-order EBMM instrument, I want to go with a guy who I'm confident knows the line inside-out. Every option, every color, every code on every instrument. I don't have that confidence in my GCs.

So, in summary, I like having wiggle room on price. I don't really like to press the issue and grind down the price. I find that part distasteful. The guy from whom I've been buying my EBMMs (and that's just about all I buy in guitars and basses) gives me a price. If I'm ready to buy, I take the deal, because I know he gives me a good price. I know he'll take care of me on future transactions too. I feel like the deals get better and better. That and the good service he and his brother give me are the best loyalty program out there.

 

[Bass-sic]

IMHO...I think that GC should keep it the way it is. There are price stickers on the products as it is, so this gives people a choice. If they don't want to haggle over price, they can purchase it at sticker price. If they want to get a bargain, they can haggle to get it down. Now they have the best of both worlds, it's up to the customer to decide. I know there are some customers that can afford, to not haggle over $50. But there are a lot of starving musicians out there as well. And for them, 50 dollars can make or break the deal. So you might be losing a lot of your customer base, by getting rid of this option. Now if they want to lower the displayed sticker price to a more competitive price, plus still allow room for the haggling, that would even be more incentive to buy at GC.

 

[phatduckk]

FYI: My local GC is the SF location.

When I'm shopping for a particular item I do my homework and have a good idea of what online retailers are selling it for. If I find myself intrigued by an item at a store whose "deal" price I'm not sure of I'll look it up on my iPhone or call a buddy who I know will be near a computer.

With all that as a backdrop I gotta say that my local shop usually has lower prices than GC. Since they know me pretty well I get an even bigger price cut without even asking for one.

Now regarding CG and the haggling. I'm VERY passive about it. When I start talking to a sale guy I treat 'em like a friend and start chatting about what I'm looking for. I do my best to try and come across as a knowledgable shopper. So when prices get discussed I'm up front with 'em. If xxx e-tail shop has the same thing advertised way cheaper I let them know & if they're close enough I'll buy it. I don't expect a price match and psychologically I justify paying a bit more for having it right away as opposed to dealing with waiting for UPS etc.

If the price negotiations go away and I was confident that GC's price was the best I'd be fine with it assuming the item was not a floor model. I hope this doesn't come off as demands. GC doesn't owe me anything & i've made tons of purchases there . This is just me thinking out loud as a buyer

 

[Sweat]

We have all talked about our likes and dislikes, still would rather barter on the guitars but like some have said with the online just easier, I now use Musicians Friend for all sorts of items, MF guitar prices on EBMM are a touch high, but other items are equal or cheaper and I dont have to drive at 3.70 a gallon, free ship and nice return policy, so for me it comes down to price, convienece and the ability to get a good deal, I have alot of gear coming this week from MF but the most important piece is from DuBaldo because of service and price, so it is a catch 22, with access to information across the web we all know what to expect with pricing and if I cant barter, I will just sit at my PC get the best deal and wait for it to arrive.

 

[rsetlock]

It really is very simple....if GC charged a fair price up front there would be no need for haggling. I buy the vast majority of my guitars from an online ship because they give me a square deal every time. Standard dealer cost for guitars is 50% of list price. A fair markup for the delaer is 10%. Almost every guitar that I buy, I wind up paying 60% of the list price. So if a guitar lists for $1000, I can almost always get if for $600. The delaer makes $100 and everyone is happy. It is not uncommon for the GC and other online sellers (Misician's Friend, AMS, Zzounds, etc) to charge up to 75%-80% of list. And when you think about it, these industry leading retailers get the best prices from the manufactures because they buy is bulk. They could easily sell their stuff at 60% of list and still make a fair profit. But they are greedy and try to squeeze every penny out of the consumer. Just check out Musicians Friend and look for a Ball Family Reserve Luke. It lists at $3500. MF is trying to get $2450 for the guitar. At 60% of list you should pay $2100. That is extra $350 that MF is trying to charge. If you apply that to the Guitar Center (MF pricing is very similiar to the Guitar Center, same company) and you factor in tax (8%) - you would pay $2646 for the guitar. That is about $500 more than if you bought it from an online retailer who would sell it at 60% of list (The $46 in additional savings would pay for the shipping). I can't understand why anyone would shop at the guitar center. And I haven't even addressed the fact that 95% of the guitars at the Guitar Center have been played by every kid in town. I consider all their equiptment to be used....and in very poor condition. In addition the GC is notorious for jacking up the list prices. Then they charge 60% of list to make the customer think you are getting a deal. That is very unethical in my opinion. The list price is the only indicator of value that a consumer can use. So next time you buy a guitar just ask to pay 60% of list. If you get it, then you know you got a fair deal.

 

[Big Poppa]

Show me someone who makes ten percent and I will show you a retail space that will be vacant soon.....if minimal overhead is 25% for an operating retail establishment it isnt hard to do the math.

 

[whitestrat]

It really is very simple....if GC charged a fair price up front there would be no need for haggling. I buy the vast majority of my guitars from an online ship because they give me a square deal every time. Standard dealer cost for guitars is 50% of list price. A fair markup for the delaer is 10%. Almost every guitar that I buy, I wind up paying 60% of the list price. So if a guitar lists for $1000, I can almost always get if for $600. The delaer makes $100 and everyone is happy. It is not uncommon for the GC and other online sellers (Misician's Friend, AMS, Zzounds, etc) to charge up to 75%-80% of list. And when you think about it, these industry leading retailers get the best prices from the manufactures because they buy is bulk. They could easily sell their stuff at 60% of list and still make a fair profit. But they are greedy and try to squeeze every penny out of the consumer. Just check out Musicians Friend and look for a Ball Family Reserve Luke. It lists at $3500. MF is trying to get $2450 for the guitar. At 60% of list you should pay $2100. That is extra $350 that MF is trying to charge. If you apply that to the Guitar Center (MF pricing is very similiar to the Guitar Center, same company) and you factor in tax (8%) - you would pay $2646 for the guitar. That is about $500 more than if you bought it from an online retailer who would sell it at 60% of list (The $46 in additional savings would pay for the shipping). I can't understand why anyone would shop at the guitar center. And I haven't even addressed the fact that 95% of the guitars at the Guitar Center have been played by every kid in town. I consider all their equiptment to be used....and in very poor condition. In addition the GC is notorious for jacking up the list prices. Then they charge 60% of list to make the customer think you are getting a deal. That is very unethical in my opinion. The list price is the only indicator of value that a consumer can use. So next time you buy a guitar just ask to pay 60% of list. If you get it, then you know you got a fair deal.

This really is the No.2 sort of customer I was talking about... They don't buy products... They buy discounts...

I would have happily paid that $3500 for the BFR Luke if it was my thing... Simply because I think that's what the product deserves. Call me stupid, but it's my money.

Actually, BP, aside from dealer's prices, Why doesn't EBMM post MRSPs of the guitars? That way, everyone would know what the recommended retail price would be from the horse's mouth? At least we would be able to weed out unethical retailers if any?

 

[whitestrat]

Remember, the ONLY thing you have over the "on-line" stores is the customer can "touch" the product - use that to your advantage, since you pay the lease for this buyer amenity! Don't let him then "leave" and buy on-line for less price.

You know, this is a funny thing... It's not like a mathamatical equation. It doesn't work both ways.

Say, if you have a brand new guitar that you want to sell online, it doesn't work if you price it as the same price as the store's physical stock. Someone will always say that you can't sell it at the same price, because I can't "see" or "feel" the guitar before I buy, and therefore, should be cheaper to incentivise a purchase.

BUT, in a store, if someone asks about why the store's price is a little higher than the online price, and you give this same answer "because you can feel and touch it before you buy", somehow it doesn't cut any slack with the customer...

Ever wondered why?

Regarding this price guarantee, actually, I'm more concerned about the effect it'll have on resale value. I still think that a 0% discount rate and an attractive price would help the resale value. BUT, GC alone cannot control this market no matter how big they are. It needs to be an industry effort, or a top down initialtive (from the root of the supply chain).

Hell, Panerai alone couldn't control how well their watches could resale... There are only 2 watch brands in the market which can command their market values, and it's Patek Phillippe and Rolex. And they did it thru other varied means rather than just pricing control.

 

[Slingy]

It really is very simple....if GC charged a fair price up front there would be no need for haggling. I buy the vast majority of my guitars from an online ship because they give me a square deal every time. Standard dealer cost for guitars is 50% of list price. A fair markup for the delaer is 10%. Almost every guitar that I buy, I wind up paying 60% of the list price. So if a guitar lists for $1000, I can almost always get if for $600. The delaer makes $100 and everyone is happy. It is not uncommon for the GC and other online sellers (Misician's Friend, AMS, Zzounds, etc) to charge up to 75%-80% of list. And when you think about it, these industry leading retailers get the best prices from the manufactures because they buy is bulk. They could easily sell their stuff at 60% of list and still make a fair profit. But they are greedy and try to squeeze every penny out of the consumer. Just check out Musicians Friend and look for a Ball Family Reserve Luke. It lists at $3500. MF is trying to get $2450 for the guitar. At 60% of list you should pay $2100. That is extra $350 that MF is trying to charge. If you apply that to the Guitar Center (MF pricing is very similiar to the Guitar Center, same company) and you factor in tax (8%) - you would pay $2646 for the guitar. That is about $500 more than if you bought it from an online retailer who would sell it at 60% of list (The $46 in additional savings would pay for the shipping). I can't understand why anyone would shop at the guitar center. And I haven't even addressed the fact that 95% of the guitars at the Guitar Center have been played by every kid in town. I consider all their equiptment to be used....and in very poor condition. In addition the GC is notorious for jacking up the list prices. Then they charge 60% of list to make the customer think you are getting a deal. That is very unethical in my opinion. The list price is the only indicator of value that a consumer can use. So next time you buy a guitar just ask to pay 60% of list. If you get it, then you know you got a fair deal.

That's funny, with my calculator I checked about 5 EBMM guitars on GC's website. All five were at 70% of the list price to the penny. Seems like a very reasonable/generous pricing strategy.

 

[rsetlock]

So you pay an extra 10% to the GC plus 8% tax. That means you are paying an extra 18% for the product. If you buy a Ball Family Reserve that translates to $600-700. Why would anyone choose to throw their money away? I go to the GC to try out the instruments but I never buy them there.

 

[rsetlock]

This really is the No.2 sort of customer I was talking about... They don't buy products... They buy discounts...

I would have happily paid that $3500 for the BFR Luke if it was my thing... Simply because I think that's what the product deserves. Call me stupid, but it's my money.

Actually, BP, aside from dealer's prices, Why doesn't EBMM post MRSPs of the guitars? That way, everyone would know what the recommended retail price would be from the horse's mouth? At least we would be able to weed out unethical retailers if any?

I don't agree...maybe I am a fourth category. I love buying guitars...I own over 50. I work hard for my money and I don't like throwing it away. You talk about value in your response. In general there has been a trend in the guitar business to build the perceived value of these instruments. Note the word perceived. Gibson is the king of this strategy. Everyone these days is releasing limited edition models with huge price tags. Then there is marketing blitz to convince the consumer that the instrument is worth the price. In reality these instrument are just wood and a bit of steel. I have no problem paying a fair price for them. Everyone needs to make a living. But there is a reason that BP does not publish prices or allow prices to be part of this website. The more the consumer knows about a product, the more difficult it will be to sell these items. Reasonably intelligent people would have a hard time shelling out 3K for a guitar that only costs $500 to make. The deck is always stacked against the consumer because only the delaers and manufactures know the true value of the products. So if you think your getting value for paying $3500 go right ahead. I simply choose not to waste my money.

 

[rsetlock]

Show me someone who makes ten percent and I will show you a retail space that will be vacant soon.....if minimal overhead is 25% for an operating retail establishment it isnt hard to do the math.

So BP what in your opinion is a fair markup for the dealer: 20% - 30%? I think the reality is that there are different margins for different products. I am sure that most small shops make rent through lessons, rentals, and low end equipment. I deal with a few well establishhed shops that have no problem selling high end guitars at 60% of list. And some have been around for 30+ years.

 

[whitestrat]

So if you think your getting value for paying $3500 go right ahead. I simply choose not to waste my money.

That's just it... To you it's a waste. You feel that the guitar is not worth that $3,500 price tag. I happen to think it is, because what that $3,500 can buy, is much less in terms of intrinsic value to my happiness from playing the guitar. The amount of joy I can get from a well crafted instrument is... well... priceless.

How much is YOUR happiness worth?

 

[candid_x]

I like fixed competitive pricing on new items, and negotiable pricing on used, NOS or damaged items. Of course legitimate sales are always interesting.

I think the "everything in the store is negotiable" position hurts credibility and legitimacy, both for the store and for the industry.

The benefit of the store vs buying online is obviously that you can try it and buy it right there, right now. If the guitar is $35 more than what I can get it for online, so what? It's worth it to get the one I tried and liked right now.

 

[mcclassic]

I have spend a lot on GC, however the last couple of months since they started with the new policy, I have stop buying a lot too.

I don't like to have bargain to the price but it has worked for me so far, so after some though I agree with candid_x saying that a fixed competitive pricing will be atractive to me to maybe consider buy again the new stuff, and to be able to negotiate pricing on used, NOS or damaged items. I think that would be more fair for both parts.

 

[Smellybum]

Show me someone who makes ten percent and I will show you a retail space that will be vacant soon.....if minimal overhead is 25% for an operating retail establishment it isnt hard to do the math.

Never a truer word said - When I worked retail for Sound Control - margin was cost plus 10% for clearing stuff, but that was last resort,

I know we're not in GC country but my humble opinion is the "deal days" are gone, customers don't want to barter for a deal - they just want the guitar of their dreams as the cheapest price, and more often than not the little music store suffers as they get used as a testing ground.....

But please open up in the UK!

Thanks for the oppertunity to put my point accross...

 

[travs]

I have never spent a dime at GC. I love the huge photos of rock stars and the walls of every
color and every brand. I am not a wal-mart guy. I would rather support the mom and pops in my city. CG can do what they want on pricing. profit is not a dirty word.

In my business it costs 20% or more to print a invoice.

 

[Larry]

I have never spent a dime at GC. I love the huge photos of rock stars and the walls of every
color and every brand. I am not a wal-mart guy. I would rather support the mom and pops in my city. CG can do what they want on pricing. profit is not a dirty word.

In my business it costs 20% or more to print a invoice.

Same here except I usually support some guy in Connecticut my local music store is a bit of a pain to deal with.

All I buy from GC is picks and cables.

 

[pjc812]

MAP anyone?

I have never spent a dime at GC. .

Nor will I. I prefer to do business locally whenever possible. I hate haggling and won't even do it with a car. I will pay what I think something is worth. If the salesman can't convince me first time I should spend the dough, see ya. I will not be back around a second time.

I wonder (music store owners help me out here) how this will fly with MAP policies? They can't publish the cheaper prices if they are below MAP (which is really what retail price is anymore anyway).

List price means nothing, zilch, nada and hasn't for a looooong time. That being said, the only guitars I've ever played I thought were worth full list were the BFR's. It pains me to see things like a BFR Koa Axis sell 30% off of list. They are so limited there is no reason for it.

So I reiterate - how will this affect MAP or will MAP affect this? Just for curiosity's sake.

 

[Big Poppa]

fair warning pjc used to compete with gc...
I would love it if someone can produce a bfr for 500 the tops cost me 150....sometimes it is better if you state something as a question rather than an absolute.....Stating that that a bfr costs 500 make as fact is not really a comment I can seriously respond too becuase it is wrong and naive.... just like dealers should only make 10%...

I wish both were true I wish that I could make just ten percent but that pesky health insurance bill and those damn utilities and the forty percent benefit on top of living wages paid of yeah and the rent dont forget the freight and the liability oh wait the marketing expenses....

'But this is aq hijack aqll of the talk of what a dealer should make and what someone thinks it costs to do business....back to marty's question