I am not satisfied

[kevin]

Music Man being a fairly small company, on the grand scale of things,
needs and requires the assistance of our International Distributors.
They are a vital key to getting Music Man instruments to the masses.
Here in the US we sell directly to the music store, who in turn sells to
the end consumer. Internationally there is "one more player" in the
mix(the distributor). Basically it works like this... an instrument that
is sold over seas has to first be sold to a **distributor** then the
distributor sells it to the **store**, who in turn has to also make a
profit when selling it to the end customer(so there is a significant
amount added because of the extra middle man). The cost of
transportation is substantial, and fluctuates monthly with gas prices.
Our distributors also pay a large amount of overhead on advertising the
EB/MM line as well as other Music Man/Ernie Ball related promotions.
Then of course you add in both duties and taxes and our distributors
cost of importing Music Man starts to sore. Believe me guys we aren't out to make more $$ on our International customers, and neither are our distributors...they are using standard mark up %'s as are the stores in your respected countries. Do a quick search and you'll find a few threads that go into further detail.

 

[DrKev]

Kevin, I think most of us are quite aware of the basic structure of the system and nobody is suggesting that you guys are trying to rip us off. We know the extra price comes from further down the line. What we are saying is "Holy crap!! Look at the extra price!!"

I'm not sure the exchange rate argument works actually...

bfr at 6000 euros is a steep price

With the current exchange rate, that is about $8000.

 

[kevin]

Kevin, I think most of us are quite aware of the basic structure of the system and nobody is suggesting that you guys are trying to rip us off. We know the extra price comes from further down the line. What we are saying is "Holy crap!! Look at the extra price!!"

I'm not sure the exchange rate argument works actually...



With the current exchange rate, that is about $8000.

Here is a sample of how it works, when you break it down it makes total sense. Please keep in mind these starting figures are just for a example sake:

Equation #1(International Pricing)
MM sells instr. to Distributor for $10

distributors adds their importing costs which bring their cost up to
$12....they in turn add a 50%(standard) upcharge bringing the store's
cost to $18. The store then in turn marks the instrument up 50%
bringing the end users cost to $27 total.

EQUATION #2(US Pricing)
MM sells instr. to US Based dealer for $11

The dealer adds 10% for transportation and misc. costs that brings their
price to $12. They then add the standard 50% mark up to the instrument
bringing the US end users price up to $18.

 

[kevin]

if anybody has any other International pricing inquires please email me direct:

[email protected]

 

[darchirnoj]

Don't forget (you guys from Europe), that it swings both ways.....last time I checked, a Feline guitar was gonna cost like 3k because of the same exact exchange rate. I know that this doesn't really pertain to EBMM guitars and I apologize for mentioning another brand, but just wanted to bring that to your attention.
-darchirnoj

 

[DrKev]

Thanks again for that Kevin (is there a record for consecutive posts by Kevins??) that'll clarify things for a lot of people, and yes, I've already said too it that it makes total sense in that the numbers add up.

Let me make this clearer - it's not the extra cost that bothers us, it's the size of the extra cost, no matter where it comes from! Does it make sense that somebody pays $8000 for a BFR? When that somebody could be you, the answer is a definite no. We know you might not be able to do anything about it. When the ice cream falls off the cone, splattering on the pavement and the child starts up like Concorde on take off, don't tell the child about gravity. JUST GIVE US ALL A HUG, DAMN IT!!

 

[Guiguitrucci]

i have a question regarding to this subject,

is there any way to bypass the french (or whatever the country) distributor? like bying to a US store, even if we have to pay the US taxes plus the french ones and the transport (its still cheaper that way) cause we know the quality of the balls and the risk of requiring the help of warranty services is quite low...

i guess the answer is no, to prevent the distributor's life (but i ask anyway), but as far as i'm concerned, either i buy one like that or i don't buy one (i can't afford the french prices) and in every way, the french distributor wouldn't loose a costumer...

i kwno there isn't any solutions, but i'm quite sure the numbers of selling would increase quite frankly with a lower price and to make a comparaison, a BFR at 5090€ it's around 4 times the average salary here. (juste to give a reference point, no idea how much that is over the atlantic)
and besides, we're french, it's normal we complain lol

@darchirnoj, it's quite unfair in that way too

 

[luke69]

For all

i wasn't a baby 47 years old
my english is too bad and i can't say what i really mean
i know the system of import i work for a German society vhich sell also hight quality products in France
for the change if $and € was the same the guitar will be 25% more expensive
for the frony smilies it's better if it'swasn't in the list...


sorry for all
i think that a lot of my words are not what i really mean it's not easy
in France we said that is better to say when it's no good if you say nothing ,that's show you are not interresting by the subject.
i promiss that i never do that again

thanks

 

[kevin]

i have a question regarding to this subject,

is there any way to bypass the french (or whatever the country) distributor? like bying to a US store, even if we have to pay the US taxes plus the french ones and the transport (its still cheaper that way) cause we know the quality of the balls and the risk of requiring the help of warranty services is quite low...

i guess the answer is no, to prevent the distributor's life (but i ask anyway), but as far as i'm concerned, either i buy one like that or i don't buy one (i can't afford the french prices) and in every way, the french distributor wouldn't loose a costumer...

i kwno there isn't any solutions, but i'm quite sure the numbers of selling would increase quite frankly with a lower price and to make a comparaison, a BFR at 5090€ it's around 4 times the average salary here. (juste to give a reference point, no idea how much that is over the atlantic)
and besides, we're french, it's normal we complain lol

@darchirnoj, it's quite unfair in that way too

you can purchase a MM instrument from wherever you want, Warranties are only valid in the country in which the Music Man instrument was purchased(unless it is an out of production instrument). Call High Tech directly and give them a shot...there great group of guys and have done a good job bringing MM to our French customers and deserve the support from the customer base that they helped to build. I'm going to bow out for a bit here boys.....as there is a lot going on here at the office. Please direct any other questions to my email: [email protected]

 

[Spudmurphy]

Luke 69
I wish that I could speak French. Your post (in what is not your native tongue) got the point across.

Kevin from EB, has used 2 equations to explain the situation and I can see where he is coming from.

In the UK we are always complaining about the price of goods over here compared to the price in the country of manufacture. We then see for example British cars (are there any?) being sold in the US much cheaper than in the UK and we feel unhappy about it. The fact is that the UK government imposes more purchase taxation on the car than they do in the US.

I feel bad about it too but the only way we would see cheaper EB guitars in Europe is if:-
1) EB sell them cheaper to the European distributor - and they won't do that.
2) Guitars become tax exempt - as I work for H.M. Revenue & Customs I can tell you that won't happen either.
3) We dispense with the European distributor. EB are committed to their distributors without which they would not be able to conduct efficient business so they won't do that.

What can we "Euros" do about it?
We could have a holiday in the US and buy a guitar over there. You may be lucky and get through the "nothing to declare channel" (DaveB knows someone who did that!) - not that I can advocate that.
or to keep costs down you could import a second hand model - nice if a dealer in the US would specialise in second hand models) - trouble is BP doesn't see a slice of that action.
Conclusion
We pay more for foreign goods over here - always have, probably always will.

Oh yeah - let me have a dig at the French - hey we were enemies for centuries so why not ?lol! The French impose HUGE HUGE taxes on foreign cars making Peugeot's and Renaullts a far better proposition to buy - thats why you have a lot of French cars on your roads (and a car industry!!) - is that fair _ Spud runs and ducks for cover !!!

 

[Smellybum]

Opinions are like smelly bums... here's mine....

I am over the UK /Europe costing more, if you were to fly return to pick it up it's cost a little less but you've got the hassle of doing all that - Balls cost what they cost - if you want one pay for it

If you cannot justify (or suck as a player like I do) then buy used you don't get the warranty but you get it for less.

Smelly now rests.

 

[Guiguitrucci]

i wasn't putting any doubts in the professionalism and kindness, not at all, contrary...

I was just trying to find a way to afford one of those babies, cause prices here are too high for me, there isn't, i'll just have to wait for lottery or fame for my second ball (or being lucky enough to find exactly the one i want i second hand.

But thx both BP and Kevin for those explanations

 

[martyhk0]

sorry BP.
I know my response was over the top.
I was in a bad mood to begin with, and his remarks just set me off.
besides it all, I have family in Europe/UK and I love it over there. I look forward to going over to get away from all the crap thats been going on in the USA under the current admin., and it costs me a fortune these days. its just a real sore subject with me these days.
So, once again, my apologies to BP and the forum, OP included. So luke69 excepts my apology for my not so nice comments.

oh and to Drkev: yes you make some good points, BUT
1. not all of us have higher incomes in the States then you, thats just not true. I don't know where you got that idea from.
2. gas is alot cheaper, but we HAVE to use our cars. Europe's mass transit systems are about 1000 times better and more extensive then here in the States. I could easily survive in Europe without a vehicle for the most part, but in the US you cannot unless you happen to live in a major city like NYC or Chicago, or about half a dozen others.

 

[kompressaur]

I'll always be an EBMM bottomfeeder and I've never owned a Ball I didn't love

I've even managed to buy a few new ones over the years but their profile is such now that there's always an affordable one out there.
10 years ago even seeing a silhouette in the UK was something very rare indeed.

I'll always bottomfeed and be happy. for as more models and variants come online every year,the bottomfeeder's table gets richer in variety

Komp

 

[Dead-Eye]

Oh yeah - let me have a dig at the French - hey we were enemies for centuries so why not ?lol! The French impose HUGE HUGE taxes on foreign cars making Peugeot's and Renaullts a far better proposition to buy - thats why you have a lot of French cars on your roads (and a car industry!!) - is that fair _ Spud runs and ducks for cover !!!

Hey, you've got Aston Martin and Jaguar...Rovers were crap anyway

 

[beej]

Sigh ... I hate when these threads come up.

I understand the frustration, but really, these guitars cost what they cost. They're cheap for some and expensive for others ... all depends on your available cash.

EB/MM is not in the business of giving away guitars. I think their products are very reasonably priced, certainly in the context of other made-in-USA vendors, but that's just me. I also think that if you want a good piece of equipment, frankly you have to pay for it. And only you can decide if it's worth the cost.

The economics of selling a niche product around the globe are difficult. You have to involve middle men who all need to get their cut. But they're necessary- without them you have no international distribution or support network.

Bottom line is, if you can't afford the guitar you have two options: buy something less expensive (used, a non-BFR model, etc.) or don't buy it at all. But complaining about it isn't going to do any good: these things cost what they cost. Frankly, if anything, I think EB/MM could increase their prices and still be competitive.

 

[Sweat]

Normally I would not respond to such a thread because it has been brought up before, like beating a dead horse it aint going anywhere and gives me tired head and is a waste of bandwidth, if you want a ball then buy it, else move on, you are paying for your countries economic system and shipping is expensive nowdays.

 

[somesmerized]

When I was living in France, I used to see EBMM instruments as completely out of my reach. And they were... Not only because of the price difference, but because I wasn't making mucho dinero.

The first time I actually saw a lefty Stingray in a store in the US with a pricetag on it, I said to the salesman 'Wow the guy who owned it before took really good care of it !' I was thinking the bass was pre-owned ! So the price difference was actually a good surprise for me.

I now live in CA and I'm starting my EBMM collection. Gosh do I love this country !!!

 

[Big Poppa]

Luke 69

you are fine and I welcome and appreciate the comments and suggestions even if it is blowing off steam.

It is possible to discuss something with out all the bs.....


I have spent many a hour with foriegn distributors...We know the issues. We talk about bold concepts and utilizing the internet and we talk and talk and maybe there is a ten percent savings and a 40% decline in service and quality....

Lets look at this one last time......Lets say I elimanate the foriegn distributor like Fender and peavey did. Ok now I have to rent an office and warehouse.....I better hire a receptionist...ok a shippeer....now a tech....now what about the saleman.... what about the billing and credit people....I have to print everything in that language...I have to hire an ad agency Oh wait...we need a mangager..what about an accountant...better not leave out the attorney.....Im going to sell 300 guitars in that country.....The guitar would be so far out of reach. THis is what the distributor does for us at a cost that is exceptionally cheaper than if I did without. If we had the volume of Fender it MIGHT pay off but I dont think it did for them...I dont know just an honests educated guess.

Now lets look at the reward the distributor gets. They take the line on 25 years ago when nobodys gives a rats ass.....they stick with us investing in marketing knocking on dealers doors beating their head on the wall and now there is demand and they usually fear that they will be cut off...It isnt right.

If im known in the business world as anything it is someone who isnt afraid to go against the grain but this one is a fact of life and the splinters are not worth it.

 

[MN246]

I have the perfect solution. Take a nice vacation over to the states. Pick up a nice EBMM while you're here and everything is good. Maybe you just keep an eye on evil bay and see what pops up. That might work too.