Question Is gunstock oil still recommended for necks?

[lumberjack]

Just curious. Wondering if someone from EBMM or others might be able to answer my question. I came across the Neck and Fretboard Care video that Drew Montell did on MySpace(very good video by the way). I noticed that he didn't use any gunstock oil. He went right to the gunstock wax application. Just wondering if the gunstock oil is still being used at the factory and if it's still recommended?

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.showvids&friendID=104323774&n=104323774&MyToken=c20a655e-f6d7-47fb-9987-75701a2a9c65

Thanks,
Scott

 

[banjoplayer]

I noticed that too and thought that the oil needed is in the wonder wipes. I mean you only need VERY few oil and wax. The wonderwipes make it easier but "Tru Oil" can´t be wrong. They recommend it for many years now.

Can someone clear it up?

edit: Great Video indeed, thanks for that!

 

[candid_x]

Interesting. Looks like the recommended protocol has changed. I'm surprised to see sandpapering recommended. Secondly, I notice he applied the Murphy's Oil Soap full strenth, rather than the old method of diluting in water. Then, when he is applying the BC wax, he says it seals in the natural oils from the Murphy's Soap. So the soap oil appears to be replacing the Tru Oil. That's puzzling to me because Tru Oil actually hardens/cures in the wood surface, whereas oil-soap does not. I can see a possible problem of using too much Tru Oil, or too often. Maybe this is why SLO changed their recommendations?

 

[Luc]

Good question, I was just thinking of ordering the tru-oil, but maybe I need the oil soap now?

 

[hbucker]

I just think you need to be careful as to whether or not you're using something that will clean the neck and condition the wood, or just layering something on that will build up and possibly even trap dirt and gunk under each layer.

I've had good luck on my oiled necks, including my EVH, by using undiluted Murphy's and a soft toot brush. Then wipe it down really well with lemon oil. Let it sit over night, wipe it down more with a dry rag. Then I'm done.

Never used the gunstock oil or wax or whatever and my EVH neck is still nice. Even still has the original sweet factory smell.

Tung Oil is something that seems to always be misunderstood and an example of what I'm talking about. It is not a cleaner. It is a finish that builds up. Some people apply it annually and I believe this is a mistake.

I do yield to those with experience with gunstock oil and wax. I've never used them but the build-up factor would be the only thing I'd be specifically concerned about. I've not had this problem with Murphy's and Lemon Oil.

 

[candid_x]

I just think you need to be careful as to whether or not you're using something that will clean the neck and condition the wood, or just layering something on that will build up and possibly even trap dirt and gunk under each layer.

I think you're right. First, Tru Oil is an actual hard finish, just as Watco Oil or Minwax is, and so reapplying it over an existing layer could cause build up problems. I am guessing that this may be the reason for the change in recommendations.

But what throws me is that the demo sanded through old finish to bare wood, and then merely uses oil soap covered in wax to protect the neck. That won't work for me.

I'm happy with my current maintenance methods. The neck Wonder Wipes have worked wonderfully with the undercoat of Tru-Oil from two years ago, and I don't see the need for another Tru Oil treatment anytime in the near future. I only use the neck Wipes every couple of months or so, using a damp soapy wash cloth in-between times. My MM necks look and feel great.

 

[Slingy]

I think the Tru Oil is best on new raw wood like said before, SLO uses it for the initial seal, correct? I'm going to use the Murphy's, sandpaper, and wax, as soon as I receive the wax.

I also heard the entire process takes about 5 minutes on new instruments, oil on, wipe down, wax on, wipe down.

 

[banjoplayer]

I don´t think they changed the recommendations.

In the FAQ Tru Oil is still recommended as ever

And yes, it takes 5 minutes in the factory.

Beside that Tru Oil is a very well discussed issue so far. Two posts helped me a lot when I had to decide how to maintain my guitars neck:

#1

Our Forumite fsmith was at the EB open day at Slo and he said that he spent quite some time watching an employee apply the finish to the necks. This is what he said...

"Yep, it's not a big secret. It's been documented elsewhere. I was very curious because I've been doing my own necks and wanted to see if I was doing it correctly. I spent about 20 minutes at that station and actually talked to the woman who was doing the finish on the necks.


She applied the oil to the neck wiping a coat over the entire neck and I'd say within 15 seconds she grabbed a paper towel and wiped it off. Then she applied the wax, let it sit for 10 seconds or so and with fresh paper towels wiped it clean and then with another paper towel she did a final wipe down and moved to the next neck. If you blinked she was moving on... I was surprised by how fast she was doing it and asked is that all there is to sealing the necks and she said yes that's it."

I followed those instructions which resulted in the "factory finish".
You may think "let's just rub that in a bit more or let's leave it on a bit longer 'cos it's bound to produce better results - no need!!

Spudo

#2

On a maple neck with maple fretboard, use lemon oil to clean the gunk. Then use gunstock oil and gunstock wax. Use the oil in small amounts. Finish with the gunstock wax.

 

[candid_x]

I don´t think they changed the recommendations.

Have you viewed the video in question?

 

[phatduckk]

that video's pretty great!

thanks drew

 

[banjoplayer]

Have you viewed the video in question?

Of course I did, it´s great (which I said above)

But no one mentioned so far, that the FAQ is still the same, so i can´t imagine they made a total change of recommendation towards "no more Tru oil".

To clean the neck, use a high-grade of lemon oil. If the neck is very dirty, try Murphy's Oil Soap diluted 3:1. Some players have found that using a toothbrush for cleaning is very effective.

Since the neck is finished only with the gunstock oil/wax blend, it is more susceptible to humidity changes. A very infrequent dose of gunstock oil will help to keep the neck maintained; we recommend Birchwood-Casey Tru-Oil, but any good quality gunstock oil will work.

I CAN imagine, that it´s possible you don´t need the Tru Oil when using Wonder Wipes (EDIT: OR OIL SOAP), because they have oil inside too.

But we will not know for sure until someone clears it up, (EDIT: which i would appreciate, maybe I´m wrong)

 

[jamminjim]

I don't know what all you guys think, but I have reservations about using "sandpaper" on an unfinished neck. It's going to remove material (wood) even though a slight amount, yet, it's going to remove some. Granted 1000 grit is pretty fine. I don't think 600 grit is e'er going to touch a neck o'mine. What is the purpose of the sandpaper? Is it to take off all the layers of dirty stuff? And by doing so, open up the pores of the wood? What's the thinking behind using sandpaper?

Inquiring knucklehead wants to know.

 

[Sticky1973]

These vids are great, thanks for posting. I totally missed their availability.

Nice lefty JP on the wall behind Drew, too

 

[lumberjack]

Interesting. Looks like the recommended protocol has changed. I'm surprised to see sandpapering recommended. Secondly, I notice he applied the Murphy's Oil Soap full strenth, rather than the old method of diluting in water. Then, when he is applying the BC wax, he says it seals in the natural oils from the Murphy's Soap. So the soap oil appears to be replacing the Tru Oil. That's puzzling to me because Tru Oil actually hardens/cures in the wood surface, whereas oil-soap does not. I can see a possible problem of using too much Tru Oil, or too often. Maybe this is why SLO changed their recommendations?

I'm kinda puzzled about the Murphy's soap as well. Even on other sites it's always been recommended to diluted the product before using

I noticed that too and thought that the oil needed is in the wonder wipes. I mean you only need VERY few oil and wax. The wonderwipes make it easier but "Tru Oil" can´t be wrong. They recommend it for many years now.

The thing is, Drew never uses the wonderwipes on the back of the neck. Just the fretboard. The only things to touch the back was the soap and wax.

I don´t think they changed the recommendations.

In the FAQ Tru Oil is still recommended as ever

And yes, it takes 5 minutes in the factory.

Beside that Tru Oil is a very well discussed issue so far. Two posts helped me a lot when I had to decide how to maintain my guitars neck:

#1


#2

Yeah, I went to check and see if the neck care info was still there on the Ernie Ball website. But that info hasn't changed since I joined the forums. I realize there is a lot of info about Tru Oil but that thread is from 2006. The video is the newest info we have. So I was wondering if things had changed

I don't know what all you guys think, but I have reservations about using "sandpaper" on an unfinished neck. It's going to remove material (wood) even though a slight amount, yet, it's going to remove some. Granted 1000 grit is pretty fine. I don't think 600 grit is e'er going to touch a neck o'mine. What is the purpose of the sandpaper? Is it to take off all the layers of dirty stuff? And by doing so, open up the pores of the wood? What's the thinking behind using sandpaper?

Inquiring knucklehead wants to know.

I've always been a little nervous about using sandpaper as well, but I was visiting a buddy of mine that works at a local guitar shop and he happened to be doing some maintenance on an unfinished charvel neck of his. And watched him do the sandpaper steps and it's not that scary. If you let your neck get real dirty the dirt gets right into the wood and the only way to remove it is to use the sandpaper.


P.S. I've been a little nervous about using lemon oil on necks, because if you don't wipe off the oil within a relatively quick amount of time and let a lot of it dry, it seems to darken the wood quite a bit.

 

[drewbixcubed]

OK everyone...It's interesting because as we were making this video, we were wondering how fast we would get people asking questions! First off, I would like to thank you all for the kind words on the video. Ryan, Thomas, and I worked hard to get these out. It was a good time!

Second, please understand it was hard to cover everything about caring for your neck in a <10 minute video, but I think we got the main points across

So here is the deal:
-These videos are just a brief introduction to how to care for your product. If done correctly, the techniques shown should only help your instrument.

-As noted in the video, the process is not to be done on a regular basis (6-12 months, IF necessary).

-The sanding is ONLY to be done when/if your neck is sooo rough on the back, it makes it awkward/uncomfortable to play. Unless you are experienced and comfortable with performing such a task on your neck, we would recommend letting a professional do it.

-True oil is a good idea if the neck is completely dried out, otherwise, I was simply using the oilsoap to clean the neck, and slightly "rehydrate" it (with natural oils). The wax will protect and seal the neck, just as stated in the video.


As your questions continue, I will try to answer them as much as I can, but I hope you continue to enjoy the new media!

 

[Spudmurphy]

There's more than 1 way of skinning a cat (I wonder who made that up 'cos I don't even know one way!!)
During a visit to the EB factory it was observed that during production it's a quick wipe over with the true oil followed by a quick wipe over with the wax.

I use sandpaper on mine (1000 then 1500 then 2000 grit, I've also used 0000 steel wool) followed by the tru oil only.
It gives a finish just like it came out of the factory- and I'm happy to continue doing it that way.

My guitar building buddy also does it this way and his customers are pleased with the results.

EDIT - just seen the post above
My only concern was that Gaffa tape was mentioned which I feel is a bit too tacky for guitar bodies.

 

[lumberjack]

OK everyone...It's interesting because as we were making this video, we were wondering how fast we would get people asking questions! First off, I would like to thank you all for the kind words on the video. Ryan, Thomas, and I worked hard to get these out. It was a good time!

Second, please understand it was hard to cover everything about caring for your neck in a <10 minute video, but I think we got the main points across

So here is the deal:
-These videos are just a brief introduction to how to care for your product. If done correctly, the techniques shown should only help your instrument.

-As noted in the video, the process is not to be done on a regular basis (6-12 months, IF necessary).

-The sanding is ONLY to be done when/if your neck is sooo rough on the back, it makes it awkward/uncomfortable to play. Unless you are experienced and comfortable with performing such a task on your neck, we would recommend letting a professional do it.

-True oil is a good idea if the neck is completely dried out, otherwise, I was simply using the oilsoap to clean the neck, and slightly "rehydrate" it (with natural oils). The wax will protect and seal the neck, just as stated in the video.


As your questions continue, I will try to answer them as much as I can, but I hope you continue to enjoy the new media!

Ahhh Yeah, EBMM customer service comes through for us once again Drew, thanks for taking the time to help clear things up. One question I had. Was the Murphy's full strength or was it diluted with water?

 

[drewbixcubed]

It was full strength, but I put very little on the PT first.

 

[banjoplayer]

Thanks for posting and the great video, Drew.

OK everyone...It's interesting because as we were making this video, we were wondering how fast we would get people asking questions!

It worked:

True oil is a good idea if the neck is completely dried out, otherwise, I was simply using the oilsoap to clean the neck, and slightly "rehydrate" it (with natural oils).

dried out = feeling rough?

 

[candid_x]

Thanks for clarifying, Drew.