Is shredding such a bad thing??

[ripley]

i bet if a band got famous these days and their guitar player shredded, shredding would make a comeback because society right now is like trend city.

It wouldn't be hard to convert the new generation

sad but true

I don't know. maybe here in Japan, but over here it never left.... zakk wylde has been back with ozzy for a number of years now and with all the exposure ozzy and his wife have milked out of MTV for the last couple of years, you'd think that kids would take some notice.... I'd be - from a sociological standpoint - extremly interested to see what events had to transpire to create a resurgent american interest in highly technical guitar playing. I'm also bloody tired of people rolling their eyes when I say I listen to dream theater... it's like, "oh... I HATE those guys." - but nobody can ever say why... they "just do." - while in japan, the audiences sing along word for word in perfect english at their concerts....

and on an amusing note this thread reminds me of something a friend in Asheville emailed me regarding the the termination of a 5 year relationship by his obscenely hot girlfriend. in a fit of despondence he wrote: "my goal is to be the Steve Vai of alcoholics by the end of the year." I'm not sure what that means, but I had no idea my friend even liked guitar music....

seriously, if you can find, check out Thonk by Michael Manring, everybody.

 

[mhorse]

Last night I was working on a class group project with two of my teammates, and when we got really tired and couldn't do it no more, the conversation shifted towards music.
One of my teammates listens to Dream Theater, the other is a fan or "real metal" as he puts it.
Rational of his argument against bands like Dream Theater, Megadeth (we were talking about Gigantour) and so on was that he likes music that is angry enough to make him lift at the gym! Of course he doesn't care for shredding and calls it "gay metal" (I hope I didn't offend anybody with the term)! He is a very stereotypical 21-years old college student, I guess there is a whole generation just like him out there...

 

[SteveB]

I'd be - from a sociological standpoint - extremly interested to see what events had to transpire to create a resurgent american interest in highly technical guitar playing.

I'm not 100% sure there ever *was* a lot of American interest in highly technical guitar playing. If there had been, Mike Varney would be more wealthy than Bill Gates. I think it has always been a rather small market here, probably made up of aspiring guitarists for the most part.

The Japanese market has always been a different beast. Heck, Queensryche was huge in Japan long before "Operation: Mindcrime" (their 4th album) got them noticed in the states. Paul Gilbert and Tony MacAlpine get TV appearances in Japan. You'd never see that here!

I think the Japanese generally just enjoy live music at face value and they don't get all caught up in trying to classify and pigeonhole their likes and dislikes. They trust their ears.

If only the rest of the world were as open-minded.

 

[Raz]

If shredding is such a bad thing, then why would the EBMM radio station have a channel specifically for SHREDDING?

 

[blackspy]

I guess fans of guitar playing will typically like shredding more than the average listener. At least, as a guitar player, I can appreciate the technical ability some of these shred-heads have. Even if I may not like the music.

 

[Raz]

I guess fans of guitar playing will typically like shredding more than the average listener. At least, as a guitar player, I can appreciate the technical ability some of these shred-heads have. Even if I may not like the music.

That's the sum of all hearing!

 

[hbucker]

I appreciate it. I think it can be used effectively in a musical sense. But, just like when I listen to Dixieland Jazz, I find that enough is enough after a few minutes. There are folks who live and die Dixieland. More power to them. I just find it relentless. Same with non stop shredding.

IMO music is about the right thing at the right time. If you can only Shred, you aren't any "better" from a musical standpoint than someone who can only play quarter note pentatonics. It takes all styles to communicate different messages.

Shredding is one of those and can be extremely effective. Vai's "For the Love of God" comes to mind as an awesome, mind blowing mix of shredding and other techniques. The shredding he does in that tune is set off by the deep melodies and it actually adds emotion. That's saying something because I don't associate shredding with emotion.

On the other hand, I saw a cover band a few years ago and all the guy could do is shred. They did an SRV cover and he shredded in all the solos. He thought he was pretty cool. I thought it was pretty bad even though I have no doubt the guy was technically very good.

Just be musical first and a shredder second. When it's the other way around, shredding loses it's meaning entirely IMO.

 

[tommyindelaware]

numerous times i've taken non guitar players (females even) to see morse........& every time they are BLOWN AWAY by the emotion steve generates when he plays hereafter . a magnificent combination of beatiful melodic content and FIREY speed .

 

[Polaris]

Thanks for everyone's input - I had a feeling it would spark a few different opinions. From looking at the posts I'm now of the opinion that it really doesn't matter - I'm in a band who plays electronica/acoustic and a lot of intrumental stuff (I'm in two bands, I mentioned the other in my 1st post I think) but at the same time I'm currently writing the music for a Zombie film a few of my friends are making (looks awesome!) and of course it's all very heavy and doomy music. I love Dream Theater, Megadeth, Jeff Buckley, Carol King and Tom Waits (to name a few) so I really think it's irrelivant what other people think of my playing... I know I'm not a one-trick pony! Thanks everyone!

 

[ripley]

I'm not 100% sure there ever *was* a lot of American interest in highly technical guitar playing. If there had been, Mike Varney would be more wealthy than Bill Gates. I think it has always been a rather small market here, probably made up of aspiring guitarists for the most part.

I think the Japanese generally just enjoy live music at face value and they don't get all caught up in trying to classify and pigeonhole their likes and dislikes. They trust their ears.

If only the rest of the world were as open-minded.

you're right about the world needing to be more open-minded, of course. maybe it was just the group I ran with, but I could SWEAR that before Nevermind came out that most of the girls I cavorted with actually listened to Satriani and Vai and could point out billy sheehan in a line up, and when you tell them that you play "fusion" or whatever silly thing you decide to call it, they didn't just laugh at you and go drinking with a guy in a 3 Doors Down shirt.... also, I remember a brief, but bright time when you could actually see Satch's "big bad moon" video on MTV and Vai's "The Attitude Song" - and Vai played the national anthem at one of MTV's silly celebrity softball games... I would say that's evidence of at least a marginal social intrest in "big guitar" music. what is MTV if not a vapid social barrometer? and would the last scene of Crossroads have been written and filmed if there wasn't a wider social awareness of guitar heroism? no, not the britney spears movie... get your head out of the gutter...

regarding the Japanese appreciation of technical music, I think it has a lot to do with their ingrained social value structure that emphises great technical skill and devotion to perfection in one's decided vocation.

 

[SteveB]

what is MTV if not a vapid social barrometer?

Hahaha! Well said!

I suppose it is just that, but the demographic is probably limited to kids of college age and younger.

In reality, rap and other 'urban' music is what sells. My cousin is an exec for one of the nation's largest distributors for CDs/DVDs and all things related. He told me that they could quit carrying everything except for rap/urban music and it would make very little impact on their bottom line.

Now, this is from a company that sells *all* genres of music. They are the supplier for many national chains like Camelot, Waves music, and I think Sam Goody and Suncoast. If all non-rap music collectively represents a drop in the bucket, how much of a market could there be for shred?

 

[phatduckk]

i didnt get into rock too early when i was young so my commens here may mean nothing ...

to me it seems like somewhere down the line people grew tired of "fancy". i would guess that the LA, hair metal days are somehow associated with shredding. if that's true id think that, even before Nirvana, Guns 'n Roses gets some credit for giving shredding a bad name.

i started playing guitar right after i got into rock music. i got really into Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer yada yada then onto the Nirvana-ish stuff then punk ... through that whole time I never, ever liked Vai or Sach. You can tell they're amazing ... but they always bored me to death. I'd hear a few minutes and just turn it off.

But ... I can always listen to Randy Rhoades on old Ozzy tunes. To me its because Randy was doing his thing in the context of "a song" (not a "musical peice"). I cant comment on Dream Theatre ... i could never get over the dudes voice so i never got too much exposure

 

[ripley]

i didnt get into rock too early when i was young so my commens here may mean nothing ...

to me it seems like somewhere down the line people grew tired of "fancy". i would guess that the LA, hair metal days are somehow associated with shredding. if that's true id think that, even before Nirvana, Guns 'n Roses gets some credit for giving shredding a bad name.

I cant comment on Dream Theatre ... i could never get over the dudes voice so i never got too much exposure

HAAAAA!!!! his voice IS horribly annoying. (sorry DT fans... but I have to agree.)

Guns was perfectly OK in my book until those godless "use your illusion" albums... but once those hit the racks I think it was all over. I personally hold Warrant a bit more culpable than guns n roses. and revloving around to hair metal in general; remember when CC deville got booted from poisen - or quit or whatever - and blues saraceno took over guitar duties? his association with the band lasted all of about 2 seconds and now he records little tidbits and sound snippets for garbage like "the real world" and that paragon of entertainment: "Newleyweds (nick & jessica)." he's said that recording a follow up to "Hairpick" is pointless because there's no audience for it. how sad is that?

I used to work for the musicland group and rap/hiphop/urban/whatever was our bread & butter. steve B's dead on. it's a fascinating commentary on american society, but I have honestly no idea - outside of the fact that teenagers buy the most cd's - what it translates to.

 

[Norrin Radd]

What's funny (or not so funny) is that three good friends and I HAD this discussion as we were sitting in a bar before the Steve Vai concert began on April 15th. We were trying to think of who the newest real "guitar hero" or "guitar god" was and we couldn't come up with anyone. We asked, "What guitar players do kids look up to these days and want to be like?" like we looked up to Vai, SRV and Satriani in the 80's. We couldn't come up with anyone.

Then we realized, guitar heroes used to come from bands (Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, etc...) and then in the 80's they were mostly solo artists (Vai, Satch, Eric Johnson, Steve Morse, SRV, Vinne Moore, etc...). But now, name me an active solo artist who is not from that earlier era? I can't think of any. The pendulum has swung back to where the "guitar heroes", if they exist at all, must be in bands.

So we thought, you know, a lot of those guys from the 80s all had signature guitars. Who from this generation has a signature guitar? Billy Martin? Mark Tremonti? Benji Madden? Who else? With the lone exception of Dave Navarro, I don't find any of the new signature artists very inspiring. That's just my opinion, but I think the lack of big signature artists is a reflection of the status of guitar Olympus these days!

 

[mbgreene]

So we thought, you know, a lot of those guys from the 80s all had signature guitars. Who from this generation has a signature guitar? Billy Martin? Mark Tremonti? Benji Madden? Who else? With the lone exception of Dave Navarro, I don't find any of the new signature artists very inspiring. That's just my opinion, but I think the lack of big signature artists is a reflection of the status of guitar Olympus these days!

I think alot of this also comes down to style and exposure. There are players out there who's style doesn't fit what can get played on micro-formatted radio stations or video channels (which don't even show videos anymore). I don't think Vai would have gotten any initial solo video play were it not for his prior work with DLR and the look that fit the hair metal trend at the time. Although there are currently numerous venues for musical styles, prior generations had more exposure to a wider variety within the same outlet. Even Top 40 could include everything from the Partridge Family to Hendrix in the same listing and get wider play. Now each new music sub category has its own listing and its own stations. You can find stuff but you have to look for it. And then if you stick there it can be all you listen to.

I admit I had not even heard of Dream Theater prior to finding this website and researching the guitars. But I wasn't paying attention to more modern sounds at the time - being old and stuck in my ways. Some other guys with incredible talent stay under the radar because they don't fit the mold. I got into Danny Gatton after seeing a Guitar Player cover (early 90's ?) with him behind a mask titled "The best guitar player you never heard of". So more recently I've tried to expand my own horizons.

For recent signature guitar players I've picked up the John 5 album. I was never a Marylin Manson fan but this guy can play. But it's tough to find a niche for a style where Slayer meets Chet Atkins. Johnny Hiland is more country tilted as well and he can flat out play. I also picked up the new Johnny A disc and was not overly impressed but its in my car now and I'll give it a few more spins.

I guess this is just a long winded suggestion to make an effort expand what your listening to because current formatting doesn't allow it to fall in your lap and plant the seed anymore.

 

[ripley]

So we thought, you know, a lot of those guys from the 80s all had signature guitars. Who from this generation has a signature guitar? Billy Martin? Mark Tremonti? Benji Madden? Who else? With the lone exception of Dave Navarro, I don't find any of the new signature artists very inspiring. That's just my opinion, but I think the lack of big signature artists is a reflection of the status of guitar Olympus these days!

hey now! the barritone player from Staind has a sig ibanez! (oh boy.)

I think the guy from a perfrct circle has a signature yamaha...

arf. it's so sad and confusing.

 

[SteveB]

I used to work for the musicland group and rap/hiphop/urban/whatever was our bread & butter. steve B's dead on. it's a fascinating commentary on american society, but I have honestly no idea - outside of the fact that teenagers buy the most cd's - what it translates to.

See guys? (and girls, if there are any around here)

Hang up those guitars and get yourself a loop station and some turntables! There's no money in these stringy things anymore!

[I am recalling a Zappa lyric about playing for "poot" in the B-scale bars...]

 

[ripley]

I thought guitars were expensive until one of my employees was telling me about how much money her boyfriend spent every month on stylus things for his turntables and burnt out turntable motors....

HAA!! EBMM should make a wearable turntable like DJ Jazzy Jeff had only with a silhouette neck attatched to it... in buttercream finish.

 

[hbucker]

As a former audiophile with a fairly substantial record collection from days of Yore, I cringe every time I see those guys "scratch".

 

[koogie2k]

Like I said before, most peeps who snub their nose at it cannot do it. That is fine, but, it shows to me (my opinion of course) that you spent time in the woodshed. I spend as much time as I can, only to get better. I will not be a rock star of any type, but I want to be able to play and enjoy what I am playing. For me, learning is fun. To learn a good shred lick, solo or song is a part of the process. I also like to play classical runs and what not.

As with all genres, music evolves. I see the solo coming back (Thank God) and some of these "lesser" talented bands going by the wayside......which is a good thing.

Again, if you want to shred. Do it. That is what makes guitar fun. If you don't want to, the don't. It is still fun.

We (guitarists, bassists) take the instrument too serious sometimes. I am guilty of it. Who cares what John Doe says, if he can't play, he can't play!