Is shredding such a bad thing??

[kbaim]

I was playing a classical piece on an electric....Paganini's Caprice #5 in A minor! I mentioned to them that it was a classical piece done so far back in time, it still holds to this day....only met with a blank stare.

Koogs,
I'd like to hear/see you play this when you come out west. Maybe you could show me how to play some of it.

I just saw an interview with Robert Plant last night on CHARLIE ROSE. He was asked what was he most proud about Led Zep. He answered THE VARIETY in the music. He thought that was why it's held up so well.

I haven't heard a lot of the names mentioned in this thread play guitar, but I tend to look at it as whatever inspires you to pick up the guitar and try something.

When I was younger and copping off albums and jamming with friends, I couldn't wait to get to the solo.

Now, I'm more interested in writing songs that I enjoy playing start to finish.

Whatever helps you develop your own style is what matters. Screw what anyone else says. My favorite players tend to not fall into a specific category.

 

[hbucker]

There's a difference between having opinions/preferences and looking down your nose at something. One is normal and expected. The other is just wrong.

There is nothing inherently wrong with shredders any more than there's anything inherently wrong with an "A" chord. And there's nothing inherently flawed about someone with opinions one way or the other on these topics.

It's what you do with the shredding and the "A" chord that makes them good or bad in the subjective world. That's all.

But all shredders deserve equal rights under the law.

 

[koogie2k]

Koogs,
I'd like to hear/see you play this when you come out west. Maybe you could show me how to play some of it.

I just saw an interview with Robert Plant last night on CHARLIE ROSE. He was asked what was he most proud about Led Zep. He answered THE VARIETY in the music. He thought that was why it's held up so well.

I haven't heard a lot of the names mentioned in this thread play guitar, but I tend to look at it as whatever inspires you to pick up the guitar and try something.

When I was younger and copping off albums and jamming with friends, I couldn't wait to get to the solo.

Now, I'm more interested in writing songs that I enjoy playing start to finish.

Whatever helps you develop your own style is what matters. Screw what anyone else says. My favorite players tend to not fall into a specific category.

I would be more than happy to show you. Mind you, I am not blazingly fast like Yngwie on it....yet. But, I can get it done in a decent speed. Still, I like it, it sounds good and is a great exercise to boot.

As for writing songs, I enjoy all of yours. I am still figuring out the rest of mine and will hopefully get it done sometime soon......I'll send you a copy.

 

[kbaim]

You know the whole thing?



Kudos. No small achievement that.

 

[jimmyp]

So we thought, you know, a lot of those guys from the 80s all had signature guitars. Who from this generation has a signature guitar? Billy Martin? Mark Tremonti? Benji Madden? Who else? With the lone exception of Dave Navarro, I don't find any of the new signature artists very inspiring. That's just my opinion, but I think the lack of big signature artists is a reflection of the status of guitar Olympus these days!

Out of the guitarists you mention here, only Mark Tremonti and Dave Navarro deserve them, which is good as they have high end models wheras the other two have budget models to appeal to kids. Tremonti is an awesome player - I saw Alter Bridge in Glasgow last November and he is one of the best guitarists I have ever witnessed - sheer controlled aggression and precision. I'd rate him top 5 in the world at present (I'm talking rock here) and the Alter Bridge album was THE album of last year - a real rarity - every song is good and the playing is solid throughout

 

[koogie2k]

You know the whole thing?



Kudos. No small achievement that.

Yep, I have been working on it for quite a while. Bits and pieces. It is definitely a challenge even playing it slowly. But, repetition is key and speed will build....

 

[Danjp1928]

How many times have we heard guitarists say "shredding is ****, im a feel player"?? This im afraid is complete and utter BULL****. There is no substitute for good technique. You dont see "average" musicians playing in orchestras! Im not saying that technique is the be all and end all but combine with a bit of natural song writing flare and look at the results. Bands like Dream Theater and Symphony X are both fine examples of bands which produce diverse and interesting music because they have the musical knowledge and skill (combined with natural flare) to do so. How people can even compare guitarists like Kurt Cobain to players like JP and MJR is beyond me, however i do find it quite amusing!!

 

[jimmyp]

Forgot to say when I posted before, I am a fan of good musicianship. Petrucci et al inspire me to practice longer and harder (not that I'm anywhere near that level - probably never will be, either) so that is a positive aspect of the shred mentality - I try to emulate what the technical guys do and improve my playing. However, regarding Dream Theater (playing Orlando in August - I will be there), much as they have always been a very technically advanced band (understatement or what) I personally think that since Jordan Rudess joined, they have lost a little of their musicality to concentrate on the technical. If you watch the Budokan DVD, they cannot perform to the audience at all as they have to focus so intently on the music. I think that Dream Theaters music and melody have suffered as a result, which I see as a very negative impact of the shredding technical style they use.

 

[ripley]

I personally think that since Jordan Rudess joined, they have lost a little of their musicality to concentrate on the technical. If you watch the Budokan DVD, they cannot perform to the audience at all as they have to focus so intently on the music. I think that Dream Theaters music and melody have suffered as a result, which I see as a very negative impact of the shredding technical style they use.

I've never seen them live either here or in the US, but I'd be interested to see if there's a difference between the two performences. I'd have to wonder if they were particulary focusing on ba11s our shredding because they know the japanese audience really gets off on it, of if that's jus thow their act is now.

I have Rudess's "Feeding the wheel" and it's so technical that it puts me to sleep.

 

[jimmyp]

I've never seen them live either here or in the US, but I'd be interested to see if there's a difference between the two performences. I'd have to wonder if they were particulary focusing on ba11s our shredding because they know the japanese audience really gets off on it, of if that's jus thow their act is now.

I have Rudess's "Feeding the wheel" and it's so technical that it puts me to sleep.

Maybe they were just concentrating hard for the Japanese audience, but I can't watch more than a couple of songs without dozing off - once you get past the "Oh my God, they are THAT good" thing, it just gets boring. I love their music, and they do the technical thing better than anybody, but I hope they perform better in the US than they do in Japan

 

[phatduckk]

i think that maybe there's some "connection" thing goin on ...

in highschool etc kids are pissed off, kinda clueless, only 17 but have to make "life" decisions (like college choices), are easily POed by jocks etc etc etc ... i think that's why younger people really identify with Kobain etc. its not that the guy is the best guitarist but its cuz the guy is expressing their frustration for them.

before i got into punk rock i was into "real" metal and loved the guitar solo and the shred ... but one day i heard punk rock and it made sense to me. here's some 18 year old kid playing the guitar and expressing how pissed off he is and he doesnt know why. to me that connected and i dropped metal.

now that ive played guitar for many years i have found an appreciation for the "players" and technique etc. years ago i frequently would say things like "Clapton sucks". i never really listened to his guitarwork closely ... all i knew was "this dude is old and he's not yelling".

sure lots of these guys arent the best players etc but there's a lot to be said when a band or artist comes along and can put into words (or chord progressions) what 8 million kids are feeling.

those who think shredding "sucks" should shut up ... but they jujst dont knoiw any better

 

[tvanveen]

How people can even compare guitarists like Kurt Cobain to players like JP and MJR is beyond me, however i do find it quite amusing!!

Hmmm. As many people in this thread have mentioned, it's stupid to dis shredders for shredding. It's equally stupid to dis songwriters for songwriting.

Sure, Kurt was a guitarist, and if you want to compare him to Petrucci that's your business, but the reason he even comes up in the same conversation is cuz he wrote some absolutely brilliant songs and has a very high profile.

I guess for me that's what the whole thing comes down to - songs. If you're writing good songs, and blistering solos work in their context, then rock on.

I really hate it when musicians get critical and superior and holier-than-thou and competitive with each other. Since I started playing and jamming with people a couple of years ago I have found that in general musicians are extremely supportive of each other, no matter what genre they're pursuing. I think that's the way it should be. I've jammed with reggae, rap, jazz, metal, rock and new wave guys, and we always found ways to communicate and have fun. They come to my shows, and I go to theirs.

If you have enough passion to write music and play music and get up in front of people and perform it you deserve a minimum of respect.

 

[tvanveen]

in highschool etc kids are pissed off, kinda clueless, only 17 but have to make "life" decisions (like college choices), are easily POed by jocks etc etc etc ... i think that's why younger people really identify with Kobain etc. its not that the guy is the best guitarist but its cuz the guy is expressing their frustration for them.

Hear hear.

BTW, I dig your demos.

 

[tommyindelaware]

hendrix was a far cry from a shredder.......but there is no wat to measure how effective he was as a guitarist.....

how many notes you play.....or don't play..or can play.....or can't play..isn't what music is about....

 

[jimmyp]

If you have enough passion to write music and play music and get up in front of people and perform it you deserve a minimum of respect.

+1

 

[phatduckk]

Hear hear.

BTW, I dig your demos.

thank u sir (fyi: im playin bass on those trax)

 

[aaronb]

shred!!!!!

I dont understand this anti-shredding movement that seems to be going on. One thing that is common among shredders is to cheat by using massive amounts of sustain (like steve vai, i hate that guy) which should be outlawed. But if you can actually shred without help from todays technology (**points to self ) go ahead, just dont limit yourself to only one style.

 

[slukather]

shred!!!!!

I dont understand this anti-shredding movement that seems to be going on. One thing that is common among shredders is to cheat by using massive amounts of sustain (like steve vai, i hate that guy) which should be outlawed. But if you can actually shred without help from todays technology (**points to self ) go ahead, just dont limit yourself to only one style.

Agreed, l guess it's cool to not be able to play guitar properly, l don't think shred is a bad thing, but alot of players just consentrate on shred and they can't play anything else.

Scott.

 

[koogie2k]

shred!!!!!

I dont understand this anti-shredding movement that seems to be going on. One thing that is common among shredders is to cheat by using massive amounts of sustain (like steve vai, i hate that guy) which should be outlawed. But if you can actually shred without help from todays technology (**points to self ) go ahead, just dont limit yourself to only one style.

I can agree to a point. However, Steve Vai does not always rely on "todays technology"..that would be my only gripe. If you don't like him, cool. But, he can play and there are millions of people who think so.

I don't like certain players, but that is because they put down shredders and couldn't teach a pentatonic scale if there life depended on it. That is not cool.

 

[hbucker]

The purpose of being a good musician, IMO, is to communicate a message. Playing one thing over and over and over, regardless of the style, is comparable to speaking the same sentence over and over and over. After a while, it just loses it's meaning if you don't mix other sentences in with it.

Too many musicians of all styles think that they can speak the same sentence over and over, or perhaps just mix the same words up. They think the audience is supposed to hear something different and new even though the essence of what the audience hears never changes.

Hopefully this makes sense.