Musicman's out of reach now? For average people?

[musicmankixazz]

It seems more and more that the costs of guitars rise each year now. In my opinion Musicman always was better than Fender/Gibson. But I guess with Sterling coming out we'll see a reduction in sales of the American models.

It's a shame that we have to resort to what some may feel are inferior products for a better price, but I guess that's just how it goes!

I think with some mods the sterlings will be very good no doubt.

 

[Smellybum]

It seems more and more that the costs of guitars rise each year now. In my opinion Musicman always was better than Fender/Gibson. But I guess with Sterling coming out we'll see a reduction in sales of the American models.

It's a shame that we have to resort to what some may feel are inferior products for a better price, but I guess that's just how it goes!

I think with some mods the sterlings will be very good no doubt.

It's a bit like porno and sexual thought - we have sexual thought therefor we have porno.....

We have a global financial crisis therefor we need mid range priced guitars, if and i do state if EBMM sales reduce it won't be becuase of the product simply there's no enough cash to go round...

Sterlings seem to be on a lot of peoples to buy list for 09/10 - and unless the USD/GBP rates improve 2nd hand prices will go up making it probaby just as cheap to buy a new /new old stock one....

I've been buying and selling guitars for over 10 years, this is the worst I can remember the market, I gotta take my hat of to EBMM for recognising the market change, and not just selling the same models with matt finishes or other cost saving tips to compramise quality vs price...

Just my opinion......

 

[fogman]

It seems more and more that the costs of guitars rise each year now. In my opinion Musicman always was better than Fender/Gibson. But I guess with Sterling coming out we'll see a reduction in sales of the American models.

It's a shame that we have to resort to what some may feel are inferior products for a better price, but I guess that's just how it goes!

I think with some mods the sterlings will be very good no doubt.

I don't see it that way.
Let's face it. The cost of everything goes up for everyone. I do the same thing for my clients.

I don't see the Sterling line as a step backwards. If anything it's another market for people who cannot just yet afford the good stuff. It's a stepping stone if you will. An introduction.

I got my first Music Man a couple years ago. I hadn't had an electric guitar since 12 years prior.
When I was getting back into it, I was shocked at how the prices were the same if not cheaper a decade later!
Any instruments that are priced to be higher end, for the most part are offering something special for that cost. Special design, exotic woods, etc....

It's all fine by me.

 

[Spudmurphy]

Dunno why I say this but wth.
relatively speaking the value of EB guitars is good at today's prices. Back in 1973 I bought my Les Paul new for £285 which today £285 equates to £2500 - and you can get a black Les Paul for under £2500. Similarly you get a damn fine MM guitar for under £2500.

So I guess that today's prices may seem steep but in comparison are still good.

Does that make sense ???

 

[musicmankixazz]

I never said anything was a step back, I was getting at the point that American made guitars are going to be out of reach for a lot of people now. There's no reason for people to buy them if they're going to priced high. You can still get a few musicman models for $1200+ but I think the SUB failing was because they didn't offer them in a lot of colors, the carbon fiber pickguard or whatever it was looked cheesy. They could've done well with that line if they had opened it up more. Look at the highway one's they're the poor man's American strat now.

 

[jamminjim]

two words

inflation!

 

[luv]

i don't think the sub 1's "failed" because of lack of options on the guitar.

it was too expensive to make them and sell them for the prices that they were being offered at. i could be wrong, but i don't think it had anything to do with the actual sales success of the guitar.

 

[BigMESA]

I think the future problem is going to be justifying spending double the amount on a guitar that is only a little bit better. There are some damn fine guitars coming out of Korea and they are getting better. Eventually one has to ask themselves is it worth the extra money for just the name alone? I did this a long time ago with Gibson and the answer was no. Good thing, because Gibson prices are ridiculous.

Also stay away from Guitar Center pricing. Support your small town shops and get better prices.

 

[Jason2112]

I never said anything was a step back, I was getting at the point that American made guitars are going to be out of reach for a lot of people now. There's no reason for people to buy them if they're going to priced high.

In order to understand how an item is priced you have to understand what is involved in making that item in the first place. Raw materials, labor, various forms of insurance, R&D, and misc overhead costs all go into the cost of making the item, which determines the final price to the consumer. In the US, labor is not cheap - both on the production line and in the office - and insurance (health, workman's comp, liability) is extremely expensive, especially in California. So yeah, if you want a guitar that's made in the US it won't be cheap, unless you move some or all of the manufacturing process out of the country.

I find that EBMM guitars are one of the best values out there for a US-made guitar. You can pay less but how much value are you really getting? You can pay more (a lot more) and will you get an exponentially better guitar? You have to determine that for yourself, but for me, there are very few guitars that I would say are a damn good value, and that short list includes EBMM. It's not for me to say whether or not the Sterling line is the best thing to do. I'm not in the target market for that line, but there are a lot of people who are and those guitars will serve those people well.

 

[Big Poppa]

Great discussion....

Lots have been covered but......

you have to leverage your designs in order to survive....not thrive...survive.

I could have kept making tons of subs...It would have been cheaper to sell it a t normal price and give you fifty bucks.....

WE will make em here until the last person is standing but we need additional source of support if we do that instead of cutting and running.

 

[Jason2112]

I think the future problem is going to be justifying spending double the amount on a guitar that is only a little bit better. There are some damn fine guitars coming out of Korea and they are getting better. Eventually one has to ask themselves is it worth the extra money for just the name alone? I did this a long time ago with Gibson and the answer was no. Good thing, because Gibson prices are ridiculous.

True, the quality of the stuff coming out of Asia has improved, however if you are buying gear solely on price, then you are the consumer that those products are made for. There's another group of consumers who buy based on quality with less regard for prices. One is not any more right than the other, but I think there are a lot of people who start on one side and eventually cross over to the other, and when that happens, the price difference isn't much of an issue any more.

 

[jamminjim]

i don't think the sub 1's "failed" because of lack of options on the guitar.

In my humble opinion, the Subs didn't fail at all. They're definite winners all the way round. They are what they are, with the options they had. And contrary to the naysayers here, I feel they are collectible and will appreciate over time. Not decades, but years.

Long live Subs!

 

[fogman]

No. Though they may not have been top sellar.
I think they were discontinued to make production room for all the new goodies we're seeing.

 

[kissmyaxe]

This company has expanded their target marget so well with getting in on Guitar Hero early, and now Dream Theater is on the newer versions and all sorts of various John Petrucci youtube videos are getting very high view counts hes now becoming a semi-celebrity outside of the guitar player's world (just like Buckethead did thanks to guitar hero). I think Ernie Ball has the potential to have their name as reckonizable as Fender or Gibson to a younger generation and The Sterling line just seems like a step in that direction.
plus most American prices were ridiculous sooo long ago. I dont think you can buy a USA Dean for under 4k.

 

[Jack FFR1846]

I don't see the introduction of the Sterling as a bad thing whatsoever. How many of us here first bought an OLP and now have a Musicman. (jack raises hand....I have 3 MM's). I'm actually looking and am torn. Why? Well....I know I like a certain Silhouette at an un-named dealer (hi Pete) but at the same time have read the specs on the new Sterling Silo. Asymmetrical neck. To me, that could be Axis feel. I love the Axis assymetrical neck (and own another brand guitar with this same feature....although I'm selling it). The way I see it, the Sterling line is adding a whole new line of guitars. And I'm sure once some of us buy some, we're going to discover new things that we like about them (or maybe don't like.....). I've been telling a bunch of people about the line and am excited to see them come in. Will buying a Sterling keep me from buying another Musicman. No. If I find after playing it....that I like the MM better, is the price difference going to keep me with the Sterling even if I don't like it as much? No.

On the question of American guitars getting too expensive. I did notice that the EBMM's on Guitar Center's site have gone up. I also noticed other American guitars going up. What I didn't see (thankfully) was something like a JP6....then a "bashed and wrecked and scratched up" version of a JP for an extra $500. I still look at value for the money and find very few companies with the kind of value in these guitars we all love here.

jack

 

[luv]

In my humble opinion, the Subs didn't fail at all.

i'm with ya jim...i only used the term "failed" because the OP did.

 

[whitestrat]

I never said anything was a step back, I was getting at the point that American made guitars are going to be out of reach for a lot of people now.

Actually, American made guitars have been out of reach to many for a while now. In the rest of the world. That's how the Japanese and Koreans have managed to come in and occupy that niche. Look at Ibanez prices today... They're getting more and more expensive... A JEM costs as much as a Silhouette. Whoa... Previously, they were far cheaper... An MIA Fender is still viewed as a luxury, and an EBMM never fails to drop jaws. A Gibson will always turn heads.

 

[grandmacpubah]

I have nothing against the Sterling line I completely understand why its being done from a business perspective. I know for me personally I would be and am happy to pay a premium for a guitar made here. Not trying to say we in the US have a monopoly on high quality guitars or come across as an american elitist, I just feel happy I can support fellow americans that still manufacture something here. Rock on BP...I'm so happy to see Americans still manufacturing something.

 

[whitestrat]

I think the future problem is going to be justifying spending double the amount on a guitar that is only a little bit better. There are some damn fine guitars coming out of Korea and they are getting better. Eventually one has to ask themselves is it worth the extra money for just the name alone?

Thankfully, there's still a stark visible difference in quality between an Ibanez J custom and an EBMM JP6...

 

[BigMESA]

Thankfully, there's still a stark visible difference in quality between an Ibanez J custom and an EBMM JP6...

Hence why I only play EBMM JP6's now

I am not one to buy by price, I actually am willing to pay good money for good equipment because I'm a gear junkie lol. Otherwise I would sell all my Mesa amps, rack gear, and EB's and go play a Schecter through a Randell and pay off my truck and credit cards lol.