Musicman's out of reach now? For average people?

[musicmankixazz]

Great discussion....

Lots have been covered but......

you have to leverage your designs in order to survive....not thrive...survive.

I could have kept making tons of subs...It would have been cheaper to sell it a t normal price and give you fifty bucks.....

WE will make em here until the last person is standing but we need additional source of support if we do that instead of cutting and running.

First of all I think it's awesome you would reply to my thread. I consider that pretty cool. And I believe you, I just worry that American made products are going to be out of reach for a lot of people. I'm sure the import line will be successful because they're based on the classic designs. But I think quality control is going to be the biggest issue that the company will face with imports. If the Q.C. is very high then the product will be a bargain for everyone. Best of luck and I always have supported musicman products before being on this forum.

 

[TonyEVH5150]

It's hard to tell what will happen in today's economy. it does seem like the number of pre-owned guitars (and therefore the used market) has gone up. The for sale thread here was 5-6 pages deep at one point.

For new quitars, it's anybody's guess. I'm no financial expert, but I would venture to guess that the more expensive lines will go down in sales. But I don't think it means that the American made guitars will go completely out of reach from the consumer.

I feel like the EBMM product line is pretty strong, and that the Sterling by Musicman guitars could only help it. It's a gateway to the good stuff.

Besides, the economy is going to turn around eventually, and people will still buy stuff. Heck, maybe all they're waiting on is an income tax refund. it's the Ernie Ball Stimulus plan!!!

 

[whitestrat]

Guitars are an interesting market... It's not a NEED product. It's a WANT product. Yet it's viewed by many that it's a NEED to own more than one. I mean. with so many of us who already OWN EBMMs, how many of these are willing to part with cash to try out a Sterling? I for one am eyeing that Axis for sure... 22 fret, HH, basswood body... sounds rightup my alley.

It's an industry (I think) where you don't really need to convince the buyer about the necessity of getting another product. It's just getting them to buy yours rather than someone elses.

I think we guitarists are almost in some ways like watch collectors. We don't know why we'd want more than one, but we want more than one for sure, and we'll end up with a few more than we actually need. Heh.

Think about it... How many guitars can we actually play at one time?

 

[Big Poppa]

Its one thing to make them in America Its another to make them with a commited workforce. We pay a living wage, four day work weeks, weight watchers on me, gym memberships (paid by me) Communtity gardens, health insurance, dental, counseling, 401K, cafeteria 125 plan, vacations, recreational allowance for each employee.....Believe me after all this we are not getting rich making guitars.

THe Sterling line allows an opportunity to address a part of the market that we cannot reach. It allows us a chance to work with the Park Family where there are zero concerns about anything especialloy quality.

 

[whitestrat]

For new quitars, it's anybody's guess. I'm no financial expert, but I would venture to guess that the more expensive lines will go down in sales.

This I don't agree Tony. If anything, the really high end guitars aren't going to be affected. I don't foresee a drop in BFR sales, but I do foresee a drop in generic EBMM sales. Like most markets, we're seeing a maintenance in the high end groups, and a slow growth in the low end products, but the middle range ones are being hit from all sides. In the guitar market, there are MANY middle ranged priced guitars.

Strategies also vary widely. From PRS and Fender's price increase, to Gibsons introduction of the Uber Expensive 50th Anniversary Les Paul, and EBMM's introduction of Sterling, it's safe to say that no one has the right answer to this situation, and everyone's trying their best to make things work.

Then again, I don't have a crystal ball, and everything I've said is speculative. So don't quote me...

 

[whitestrat]

THe Sterling line allows an opportunity to address a part of the market that we cannot reach. It allows us a chance to work with the Park Family where there are zero concerns about anything especialloy quality.

That Sterling Axis is SO mine!!!!!!!

 

[luv]

If anything, the really high end guitars aren't going to be affected. I don't foresee a drop in BFR sales, but I do foresee a drop in generic EBMM sales. Like most markets, we're seeing a maintenance in the high end groups, and a slow growth in the low end products, but the middle range ones are being hit from all sides.

Bullseye. I manage a retail operation and we have seen this same trend. People with money are still buying what they really want....concious of price but not objecting to prices. People that need to watch their spendings are definately looking at lower priced alternatives to fill there needs.....or not buying at all.

But I would put all EBMM's in the upper level of pricing....I think the range that will take the hit is the $500-$1000 range.

 

[musicmankixazz]

Its one thing to make them in America Its another to make them with a commited workforce. We pay a living wage, four day work weeks, weight watchers on me, gym memberships (paid by me) Communtity gardens, health insurance, dental, counseling, 401K, cafeteria 125 plan, vacations, recreational allowance for each employee.....Believe me after all this we are not getting rich making guitars.

THe Sterling line allows an opportunity to address a part of the market that we cannot reach. It allows us a chance to work with the Park Family where there are zero concerns about anything especialloy quality.

I can understand that entirely, but it's just sad how things are in the country in general. If you didn't have to pay high health insurance for your employees and some of those other things then it would be easier to make an American product. But I have confidence the Sterling line will be a hit. Many people don't like to buy higher end instruments because of road wear and dents etc. I get angry anytime I hit my axis into something. Actually I could see some interesting things happen with this line, like you could introduce limited editions where they might have a graphtech nut installed, maybe grover/schaller tuners or whatever and a certain pickup set that makes them stand out. Price them in the 700+ range. There's all kinds of options to throw around there. Maybe put an Original FR locking trem on the axis in a limited edition. It'll be fun to see how they turn out.

 

[azazael]

In my opinion it won't affect sales of the SLO made guitars simply because the majority of the customer base that the Sterling range is aimed at would not be able to afford a proper Musicman. There will be those of us who can though and buy one but thats mainly just out of curiousity and for something to mod and that is not going to affect sales in slightest.

 

[azazael]

I can understand that entirely, but it's just sad how things are in the country in general. If you didn't have to pay high health insurance for your employees and some of those other things then it would be easier to make an American product. But I have confidence the Sterling line will be a hit. Many people don't like to buy higher end instruments because of road wear and dents etc. I get angry anytime I hit my axis into something. Actually I could see some interesting things happen with this line, like you could introduce limited editions where they might have a graphtech nut installed, maybe grover/schaller tuners or whatever and a certain pickup set that makes them stand out. Price them in the 700+ range. There's all kinds of options to throw around there. Maybe put an Original FR locking trem on the axis in a limited edition. It'll be fun to see how they turn out.

As long as my guitars are not affected by the wear or dents then it does not really bother me. Builds character in my opinion. When I buy used guitars I always expect them to have some stories and its there to get played not caressed.

You are obsessed with graphtech nuts lol I am sure you mentioned it another thread or two lol

(my gold supersport now has a graphtech nut...)

 

[spychocyco]

In all honesty, I think quality American made guitars have been out of reach for most folks for a long time. At least the folks I know. If not for my wonderful wife, I probably still wouldn't have one now.

I guess it depends on your situation. If your livelihood is music, I think you're going to buy the best instrument available. On the other hand, for someone like me, who loves playing guitar but who has come to grips with the fact that I'll never be good enough to make money doing it, well, it's hard to justify spending $1,500 and up on a guitar to play on the couch. I mean, that's almost three months worth of mortgage payments, four months of car payments, six or eight months of electricity bills. I love my Axis, but unless our situation seriously changed, I wouldn't have bought it myself.

That said, having a quality guitar has changed my perspective on guitars. In the pre-Axis days, I spent about 20 years buying a whole bunch of pawn shop cheapos that were almost what I wanted or the best I could get that I could afford. The evidence of that litters my house now, and it seems that with most of them, I'd have to pay to have people come and get them. Now, if I buy another guitar, I'm after quality. There are some guitars I want, an ASS and a Petrucci among them, and if I ever have the money or find the right used one, I'll buy the real deal. I probably won't buy the Sterling version, not because of quality issues, but because that's not what I want (of course, I won't say definitely because I haven't played them. ).

On the other hand, an SB14 is on my to-buy list for this year or next (depending on what my job does and if it's still there). I've wanted a Sterling bass for some time now, but since bass is a secondary instrument for a hobby musician, I really couldn't justify the expense. The Sterling line gives me the opportunity to own something very close to the real deal for around half the price. I'd say that's a win.

 

[whitestrat]

We pay a living wage, four day work weeks, weight watchers on me, gym memberships (paid by me) Communtity gardens, health insurance, dental, counseling, 401K, cafeteria 125 plan, vacations, recreational allowance for each employee.....

Whoa... I missed this bit...

BP... Are you guys hiring? I'm willing to relocate!!!

 

[Dizzy]

Whoa... I missed this bit...

BP... Are you guys hiring? I'm willing to relocate!!!

Careful BP, I'd reckon Lionel would be willing to shag his way to the Top !

@ Lionel

 

[whitestrat]

Careful BP, I'd reckon Lionel would be willing to shag his way to the Top !

@ Lionel

Hahaha... I'm quite sure my wife would stop me from trying anything funny like that Dizz.

 

[Big Poppa]

I think that dizz is really just thinking what he would do....

 

[Astrofreq]

This is a great thread. I've thought about this myself as I direct students toward buying their first electric. First, I always try to steer them toward finding a used Sub. It's usually under $500 and that's usually about the limit a parent is willing to pay. That has worked on several accounts. I've lucked out two times and persuaded a student's parents to cough up $800 for used Axis Super Sports for their ten year olds.

I realize that buying used brings no money to the company, but at least it brings young admirers to the brand that just can't spend $2000 or $3000 on a guitar. Hopefully, they will gravitate toward the brand when they decide to buy something new in the future.

American prices are tough to figure out. I bought my first MM in '92, an EVH with a list price of $1899 I believe. Now, an Axis can list at minimum of $2495 upwards toward $4000 for a Koa (the Koa is an exception). So the question is, is that $600 in list price increase an out of the question increase for relatively the same model guitar 17 years later? I found an inflation calculator online and something in $1899 should list for $2773 now. Keep in mind, that's for the exact same guitar and many factors like a tone block, wood availability, etc aren't taken into the equation. SO, an Axis listing for $2495 is actually below the inflation rate. Thankfully, as I get older, I make more money.

I haven't played a Sterling guitar, so I can't comment on how it will compare to the Sub guitars. I think the Sub guitars are exceptional for the money. I hope the Sterling line is as good so I can keep steering students toward MM guitars. I'll agree that Korean guitars are getting better. One of my students bought a Zakk Wylde Epiphone Les Paul and it plays like a dream. It sounds pretty dang good too. Granted, he probably got lucky and scored a good one, but cheaper guitars absolutely are getting better, probably because more computers and machines are making the product.

 

[Big Poppa]

Rad thanks WE have absorbed so many of the costs that have risen to not blow ourselves out of the water

 

[Astrofreq]

I just like your guitars, that's all.

 

[musicmankixazz]

As long as my guitars are not affected by the wear or dents then it does not really bother me. Builds character in my opinion. When I buy used guitars I always expect them to have some stories and its there to get played not caressed.

You are obsessed with graphtech nuts lol I am sure you mentioned it another thread or two lol

(my gold supersport now has a graphtech nut...)

Graphtech's are a good product, they certainly beat having a plastic one on there if you're going to use a trem.

 

[musicmankixazz]

Rad thanks WE have absorbed so many of the costs that have risen to not blow ourselves out of the water

You've done pretty well in comparison to Fender and Gibson, their prices went up too much. I wouldn't buy an American Deluxe Strat for $1800 when I can get your Silhouette for $1300. You're offering a better made product for less. That being said, the next musicman I am getting will be the ASS or a blemished Axis (to save some cash). I own a Musicman EVH right now and a few basses.