Motojunkie
Well-known member
tkarter said:
All very good points.
- Thread starter neutrino
- Start date
All very good points.
neutrino
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2005
- Messages
- 107
I was just under the impression that *most* bass gear is made for volume and tone AT that volume. I was just hoping that there was a company out there similar to Carr for guitar players, but for bassists. Carr makes awesome tube amps that achieve thier tone at a much lower volume - they're mercury model for example is 8, 2, 1/2, 1/10 watts. But in retrospect - what's the point in owning a bass amp that weak if you EVER intend on playing with guitarists.
So, I digress. I must find a setup that will sound good at both resonable (to my neighbors) practice levels and a level that fits nicely with our guitarists. And... I am overwhealmed, but I am comforted in the fact that you all have been most curtious and helpful. For that I owe you many thanks.
So, I digress. I must find a setup that will sound good at both resonable (to my neighbors) practice levels and a level that fits nicely with our guitarists. And... I am overwhealmed, but I am comforted in the fact that you all have been most curtious and helpful. For that I owe you many thanks.
Dr Stankface
Well-known member
neutrino said:
Trace Elliot.... Always a good decision
For tone without high volume..
I think you should try some combo amps.
They are designed to work at various volume levels.
I have a little Fender 25 watter that's great for home practice.
While it doesn't have monster tone like a big cranked up amp, it has good sound at low volume.
Does what it was designed to do.
Have a Trace Elliot BLX 130 that is good for lower volume jams.
It has a GP7 Preamp (SMC series), 130 watts, 1 10 speaker, in the BLX cab.
Oh, it also has a direct out. If I wanted to record or run thru a PA, this is a real handy option to have.
While my big amps have come and gone..the BLX has stayed.
Has the Trace sound in a smaller package.
There are many other high quality combos around. Higher or lower power, different speaker options etc..
I agree with previous suggestions about travel to a place , where you can demo different amps. You'll know when you are playing the amp that sounds right for you.
I think you should try some combo amps.
They are designed to work at various volume levels.
I have a little Fender 25 watter that's great for home practice.
While it doesn't have monster tone like a big cranked up amp, it has good sound at low volume.
Does what it was designed to do.
Have a Trace Elliot BLX 130 that is good for lower volume jams.
It has a GP7 Preamp (SMC series), 130 watts, 1 10 speaker, in the BLX cab.
Oh, it also has a direct out. If I wanted to record or run thru a PA, this is a real handy option to have.
While my big amps have come and gone..the BLX has stayed.
Has the Trace sound in a smaller package.
There are many other high quality combos around. Higher or lower power, different speaker options etc..
I agree with previous suggestions about travel to a place , where you can demo different amps. You'll know when you are playing the amp that sounds right for you.
I am glad it doesn't bother everyone like it does me. I have to stay out of loud environments just to hear at a gig now days. I wear ear plugs if the gig gets too loud and then the crickets once again take over the day.
Much wiser to take care of both health issues and too loud before the damage is done. IMHO.
All hindsight of course
tk
Much wiser to take care of both health issues and too loud before the damage is done. IMHO.
All hindsight of course
tk
Dr. Nick
Well-known member
Postal said:
Good point, Postal, but I think Neutrino's original post said he was looking for separate components so he could upgrade...
For what it is worth, I recently jumped from a 2x 10 combo to separate amp and cab rig for two reasons: 1. I had hit the wall as far as power from a combo amp. 2. The weight and bulkiness of the head and the cab in one package was just too much to deal with.
One good piece of advice I received on this forum was "buy as much power as you can afford". And so I did, and I have not regretted yet.
neutrino
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2005
- Messages
- 107
this was the Trace Elliot i was refering to.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Trace-Elliot-Ba...356744902QQcategoryZ10171QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
i've also thought about taking the advice of many (through many searches) and purchase something like a Sansamp RBI, power amp (QSC), and a cab - ampeg or something and just start from there. There are lots of choices.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Trace-Elliot-Ba...356744902QQcategoryZ10171QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
i've also thought about taking the advice of many (through many searches) and purchase something like a Sansamp RBI, power amp (QSC), and a cab - ampeg or something and just start from there. There are lots of choices.
Aussie Mark said:
What does this mean? I thought a preamp was an ADDITION to a "head" like I could add an eden navigator to a wt400 for extra? whast this better bang for buck deal i am hearing about? Isnt that more expensive?
Someone explain to me this concept
Aussie Mark
Well-known member
MCBTunes said:
In simple terms, a preamp is a gain and tone circuit. A power amp is purely a beast that converts the preamp signal into power to driver speaker cabinets. In many cases, the total price of a separate preamp and power amp is less than a brand name "head" (GK, Eden, SWR, Ampeg, Mesa, etc), sounds better, and puts out a lot more power than a head (which combines a preamp and power stage in one chassis).
For example, my used Demeter preamp and new Yamaha power amp (and rack case) cost me around US$1300 (and would cost you less than that in the US), and for that I get great tube tone from the preamp and 1440 watts of power. A brand name head with that type of grunt would cost more than $1300.
"I live in an apartment complex and I will practice there, but take my stuff to our guitar players house".
Have you ever played a 300+ watt amp in your apartment?
Most of your neighbors won't hear clear, defined bass.
They'll get this low end noise or rattle, coming thru the walls , ceilings..
If you really want a high powered amp (like the TE you listed),
Plan on getting a small practice amp, or headphone amp like a Bass Rockman.
Or if the Laney is good for practice, keep it.
I have lived in apts. Used to have a small amp for there, and a regular rig for bands.
By the way..
I also use a Trace Elliot V-Type which has great old school tone.
I pair it with either a 210 and/or 410 cab.
Had an SVT4 that was way too loud, you'd need some volume from these heads to get 'the sound'.
Even with the 210, it moves more air to 'get tone'.
That = more volume to neighbors apartments.
Maybe, if they'll let you..bring home a setup from your local store.
Fender, Peavey are fine for this experiment.
Setup and play in your apartment.
How does the rig sound.
What about the volume needed to get the sound that you're after?
With the apartment in mind, see if the store for whatever amp you end up buying, will take it back , if you find out that it's too loud.
Good Luck!
Have you ever played a 300+ watt amp in your apartment?
Most of your neighbors won't hear clear, defined bass.
They'll get this low end noise or rattle, coming thru the walls , ceilings..
If you really want a high powered amp (like the TE you listed),
Plan on getting a small practice amp, or headphone amp like a Bass Rockman.
Or if the Laney is good for practice, keep it.
I have lived in apts. Used to have a small amp for there, and a regular rig for bands.
By the way..
I also use a Trace Elliot V-Type which has great old school tone.
I pair it with either a 210 and/or 410 cab.
Had an SVT4 that was way too loud, you'd need some volume from these heads to get 'the sound'.
Even with the 210, it moves more air to 'get tone'.
That = more volume to neighbors apartments.
Maybe, if they'll let you..bring home a setup from your local store.
Fender, Peavey are fine for this experiment.
Setup and play in your apartment.
How does the rig sound.
What about the volume needed to get the sound that you're after?
With the apartment in mind, see if the store for whatever amp you end up buying, will take it back , if you find out that it's too loud.
Good Luck!
Last edited:
You are going in circles with the discussion.
Tone is quality of sound (at least to me).
Remember, the amp is just a part of tone (bass used, strings...)
Volume is quantity of sound.
The two are related , but are different properties of bass sound.
Big amps move large quantities of air.
This is part of their design function.
The tonal quality is also, part of the amps design.
A high powered amp (bass) is usually made to sound good loud.
The tone seems to 'bloom' on big amps at higher volume.
Again, this is what it's built to do.
That's why an Ampeg SVT4 was too loud for my needs.
I had to 'turn it up', to get my tone.
Meanwhile, I find that a smaller amp 'gets tone' at lower volume.
A smaller amp has those same 'design factors', in a smaller package.
You sound like someone, who needs to get out & demo some amps.
Like somke others have said, try the local Fender, Peavey..
That's where your hunt can at least begin.
Tone is quality of sound (at least to me).
Remember, the amp is just a part of tone (bass used, strings...)
Volume is quantity of sound.
The two are related , but are different properties of bass sound.
Big amps move large quantities of air.
This is part of their design function.
The tonal quality is also, part of the amps design.
A high powered amp (bass) is usually made to sound good loud.
The tone seems to 'bloom' on big amps at higher volume.
Again, this is what it's built to do.
That's why an Ampeg SVT4 was too loud for my needs.
I had to 'turn it up', to get my tone.
Meanwhile, I find that a smaller amp 'gets tone' at lower volume.
A smaller amp has those same 'design factors', in a smaller package.
You sound like someone, who needs to get out & demo some amps.
Like somke others have said, try the local Fender, Peavey..
That's where your hunt can at least begin.
Motojunkie
Well-known member
As was mentioned, tone is not directly related to loud. The thing that you need to keep in mind is that if something gets the tone that you like at a low volume, it won't necessarily sound the same really loud. The biggest reason most of us are recommending more power than you really need is because you will be able to turn it up, and not suffer the ill effects of being underpowered.
Also, there are other factors that go into the concept that I'm talking about. Do a google search on Fletcher-Munson curves. There's a psycho-acoustic response of the human ear that changes how you hear the frequency spectrum as you turn the volume up.
One last thing that you should consider is whether your rig will have the flexibility to compensate for a sub-par (acoustically) room. A flexible EQ section, and sometimes more power is required to compensate for factors that you have no control over. My line of thought on that is to find an amp that you like the sound of when the EQ section is set flat (mid position). This will allow you the flexibility to compensate for all the factors mentioned above. Then for your song to song tonal changes, just use the tone controls on your bass to tweak it in.
So, to sum it up -
- Find something that you like the tone of.
- Make sure it has plenty of power to spare.
- Make sure that it sounds good at low volume (for in your apartment), and at high volume (gig volume).
- Always try it with your bass playing the music that you play. Don't let a salesman convince you to buy an amp based on a demo without you playing your bass through it.
- Travel if you need to to find out what you truly like. We all seem like fairly similar stuff here, but the truth is that Ampeg is different from GK and all the rest. Find which one you like, don't listen to the salesmen, or even us for that matter....listen to your ears.
- Have fun shopping for your amp. I love going out and trying everything under the sun. It's a good excuse to go nuts in all the shops.
Good luck!
Also, there are other factors that go into the concept that I'm talking about. Do a google search on Fletcher-Munson curves. There's a psycho-acoustic response of the human ear that changes how you hear the frequency spectrum as you turn the volume up.
One last thing that you should consider is whether your rig will have the flexibility to compensate for a sub-par (acoustically) room. A flexible EQ section, and sometimes more power is required to compensate for factors that you have no control over. My line of thought on that is to find an amp that you like the sound of when the EQ section is set flat (mid position). This will allow you the flexibility to compensate for all the factors mentioned above. Then for your song to song tonal changes, just use the tone controls on your bass to tweak it in.
So, to sum it up -
- Find something that you like the tone of.
- Make sure it has plenty of power to spare.
- Make sure that it sounds good at low volume (for in your apartment), and at high volume (gig volume).
- Always try it with your bass playing the music that you play. Don't let a salesman convince you to buy an amp based on a demo without you playing your bass through it.
- Travel if you need to to find out what you truly like. We all seem like fairly similar stuff here, but the truth is that Ampeg is different from GK and all the rest. Find which one you like, don't listen to the salesmen, or even us for that matter....listen to your ears.
- Have fun shopping for your amp. I love going out and trying everything under the sun. It's a good excuse to go nuts in all the shops.
Good luck!
Aussie Mark
Well-known member
Postal said:
The Cafe Walter headphone amp is the duck's nuts. Great unit.
Aussie Mark
Well-known member
Postal said:
Another reason why a separate preamp and power amp is a great option, since a decent tube preamp will give you the same tone at any volume.
neutrino
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2005
- Messages
- 107
Postal said:
I don't mean to.
The problem is 2 fold.
#1 Sadly the biggest bass amp that anyone has around here in stock is a fender combo or a similar peavy combo.
#2 As a newb - I have no super playing ability. I'm just learning the fundamentals right now - and just a few riffs of this and that - furthermore i would just embarass myself.
I'm hoping with more practice that i will be more able to know - what sound i'm looking for and what will fit my needs.
Thank you all for the advice - Sorry to be such a newb
I am 48 years old but maybe a newbie around here.
Now let me tell you.
Any head from 150 watts up and a 2x10 and 1x15 cab will gig just fine with pa support and blow your bedroom apart.
I am going Peavey when I go and I am gigging my butt off every weekend now days.
Wasn't so long ago I was where you are.
An EB bass on 130 watts is a fender on 500 watts IMHO.
Buy some cabs and any amp you want. If you can only do Peavey try out one of those Max 700 heads. They can blow most cabs I have had access to.
BTW TK is looking for a firebass or max 700 head at the moment.
tk
Now let me tell you.
Any head from 150 watts up and a 2x10 and 1x15 cab will gig just fine with pa support and blow your bedroom apart.
I am going Peavey when I go and I am gigging my butt off every weekend now days.
Wasn't so long ago I was where you are.
An EB bass on 130 watts is a fender on 500 watts IMHO.
Buy some cabs and any amp you want. If you can only do Peavey try out one of those Max 700 heads. They can blow most cabs I have had access to.
BTW TK is looking for a firebass or max 700 head at the moment.
tk
neutrino
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2005
- Messages
- 107
Thanks for the help! You guys rock.
Any reccomendations on Cabs to research? I know everyone has thier faves, but I don't know what pairs with what very well. Obviously Ampeg is popular for Rock type stuff - but as for the rest I don't know.
Any reccomendations on Cabs to research? I know everyone has thier faves, but I don't know what pairs with what very well. Obviously Ampeg is popular for Rock type stuff - but as for the rest I don't know.
phatduckk
Well-known member
Datta
Well-known member
couple of ideas
Check out the Fender Bassman combos. I swore off Bassmans in the 70s (I use SWR, GK and Ampeg), but I happened to do a gig a couple of years ago where there was a 400 watt Bassman Combo already on stage I played through that sounded great (at medium and low volumes). I mention this because I had a very strong anti-Fender bias that was really not justified. Yes, they have made a lot of crap, but their new stuff (and much of their very old stuff made in Leo's day) is really good.
My great loves are my SWR Pro cabinets (15,18 & 4X10). I use an SWR 550x Head and and Ampeg SVT-III Head and a GK RB200 depending on the combination of clean, dirty, and funky I want for that particular band and gig.
My favorite combo is my tiny little GK Microbass, that weighs just a few pounds more than my EB Sterling (in its case). It is easy to carry around, sounds GREAT, but lists at over $1000. It's good for small gigs and jamming - worth checking out.
Good luck!
Check out the Fender Bassman combos. I swore off Bassmans in the 70s (I use SWR, GK and Ampeg), but I happened to do a gig a couple of years ago where there was a 400 watt Bassman Combo already on stage I played through that sounded great (at medium and low volumes). I mention this because I had a very strong anti-Fender bias that was really not justified. Yes, they have made a lot of crap, but their new stuff (and much of their very old stuff made in Leo's day) is really good.
My great loves are my SWR Pro cabinets (15,18 & 4X10). I use an SWR 550x Head and and Ampeg SVT-III Head and a GK RB200 depending on the combination of clean, dirty, and funky I want for that particular band and gig.
My favorite combo is my tiny little GK Microbass, that weighs just a few pounds more than my EB Sterling (in its case). It is easy to carry around, sounds GREAT, but lists at over $1000. It's good for small gigs and jamming - worth checking out.
Good luck!
Last edited:
