Question Pick Grip style

[gurtejsingh]

Hey folks,

Here's a question that you've probably heard a thousand times, and I know everyone has a different opinion on this, but I wanted you guys to provide some insight on this:

I am huge fan of JP's playing (I have a black stealth JP6), and I love the whole alternate picking style to achieve speed and accuracy, and I am practicing and working towards perfecting it, only problem: I hold the pick differently, more like how Steve Morse does probably, so my pick tilts upwards rather than downwards while picking fast. This is just how I learned to play, and its too tough and questionable for me to change now.

As you can imagine, my unorthodox pick grip does cause some problems (and some odd looking pictures too ), and this is where I need your advice. I have heard a lot guitar players saying that it does not matter how you hold the pick, and if Steve Morse can play that awesome, it should be enough proof. But I do see a slow progress to play faster (specially on the lower strings where my hand has to tilt upwards quite a lot), and I just wanted to ask you guys is this because of my grip or do I just need to try harder?

I will try and post some pictures if I can click a few. Also, do you know of any videos where John actually talks about his grip, and its importance? I think Steve does talk about it in his instructional. I think any video's or talks which you guys know of would really help!

Any fellow player's out there willing to give some advice? Or any one who has faced a similar situation before? Is it too late to change, and is it really worth it ?

Thanks guys!

 

[Firesource]

Maybe try moving your whole arm upwards when you pick on the lower strings, so you don't have to pick at an awkward angle?

 

[Stratty316]

I switch my pick from a standard grip (thumb/index finger) to an EVH trip (thumb/middle finger) depending on what I'm playing. The only thing you can do is practice and develop your own style. JP isn't the only one who is fast and accurate.... Something tells me that Morse guy is doing Ok. Emulating how he holds a pick isn't the end of the world.

 

[DrKev]

Something tells me that Morse guy is doing Ok. Emulating how he holds a pick isn't the end of the world.

True dat! BUT most of us mere mortals don't/can't/won't put the same amount of time into honing our playing that Morse did. (One of the differences between our guitar heroes and the rest of us, right?) Look at what Wes Montgomery could do with just a thumb and no pick. Looks like a 12 year old girl trying to strum her first chord, but man could he play! Do I teach that as a viable technique? No. Sure if we put the time in we could probably master any picking style, no matter ow unorthodox, but there is little point making life more difficult than it needs to be.

I used to hold my pick between my thumb and index finger, but up close to the tip of the index finger, pick pointing parallel to it. But that was limiting my speed and accuracy. I decided to go with a new grip, similar to what Lukather does, guitar pick half way down the thumb, index finger curled under. That took me a solid 6 months to change (because I had done it the other way for 13 previous years) but at no point did in that period did my playing suffer. The worst that would happen was that I would slip back into the old position. Old habits are hard to break but worth the effort, IMO.

 

[gurtejsingh]

Thanks Firesource and Stratty for the valuable suggestions and inspiration. DrKev, your experience fits in quite well with I am facing right now. Although I do agree with you that picking differently does make life a little tougher, but at the same time switching over isn't easy either. Take this scenario for instance, I am sure you gig frequently as well, there are those parts which are fast enough in which you would typically find yourself playing it the older way while jamming or playing live, or would you risk it with a probable miss with the new picking style? It becomes a gamble after sometime, and if you are jamming/gigging frequently, would you not tend to use the older picking style for those parts?

I agree with your comment about putting as much effort as probably what Morse or JP did. Its not possible for me, since I have a day job too. There's a reason those gentlemen are our God's

Here's what I am doing, and correct me if I am heading in the right direction: I am trying to move to a position where the pick is half way down the thumb, but I just cannot achieve the curled index finger. What is the key here? Keep the pick always parallel to the strings? Or do you tilt it downwards while playing fast? And if you do, does your index finger curl inwards even further? Is that how its supposed to be?

Some one create a video please This stuff is hard to explain in text!

Also, what pick do you use? I just shifted from the Jazz III to the JP signature Jazz III (a little bigger), my thumb is rather big and ends up touching the strings using the standard size Jazz III.

Cheers.

 

[fbecir]

Something tells me that Morse guy is doing Ok. Emulating how he holds a pick isn't the end of the world.

Yes, Steve knows one thing or two about picking :

 

[DrKev]

would you risk it with a probable miss with the new picking style? It becomes a gamble after sometime, and if you are jamming/gigging frequently, would you not tend to use the older picking style for those parts?

The goal at a gig is to play your best right there and then. I suggest you do whatever you feel more confident with at the time. The more time you spend practising and working with the new technique off stage, the more comfortable you'll become with it on stage and eventually you won't think about it any more. But if you do make a mistake, no matter. Every mistake is just a moment in time and nobody else thinks about it a fraction as long as we obsess over it.

I am trying to move to a position where the pick is half way down the thumb, but I just cannot achieve the curled index finger. What is the key here? Keep the pick always parallel to the strings? Or do you tilt it downwards while playing fast? And if you do, does your index finger curl inwards even further? Is that how its supposed to be?

You're thinking too much.

If your finger won't curl, you'll just have to figure it out. Nobody else has your hands. In my opinion the angle of pick to the strings is naturally determined by your playing posture and how your arm and hand naturally approach the strings. Usually not parallel. Just hold the pick and play. Which brings me nicely to something that has been very useful for my guitar students...

Other than checking the position of the pick in your hand, I would suggest not looking at your picking hand while trying to play with the new pick position. When we look our brains try to produce a MOTION that looks like something we vaguely expect. But that usually works out very poorly. And this is music, not choreography. So close your eyes and LISTEN to the result. Just start with one note. No complex playing just yet, so you can focus your attention on just one thing - picking. Don't play too hard or to too soft, just alternate, up-down-up-down..., and try to keep the volume and tempo nice and smooth and even. Keep the tempo low to begin and gradually speed up. Remember - only judge the result on how it SOUNDs. Then try some simple open chord arpeggios, maybe some scale patterns, and then try some complex stuff. Think of the pick as "the eyes" of your hand. Your hand "sees" the strings through the tip of your guitar pick. You just moved the eyes to a different place, so some adjustment time is required and it won't be easy if you try complex stuff straight away.

Also, what pick do you use? I just shifted from the Jazz III to the JP signature Jazz III (a little bigger), my thumb is rather big and ends up touching the strings using the standard size Jazz III.

Personally, I prefer the small teardrop style picks (sometimes called 358 style). Currently I'm using Clayton Ultems, 0.9 mm. But there is no right or wrong or any style of music. Just use what feels and sounds good to you. John Petrucci doesn't have your hands and you don't have his. As long as you play better it doesn't matter if you use a solid gold dinner plate or a postage stamp.

 

[gurtejsingh]

The goal at a gig is to play your best right there and then. I suggest you do whatever you feel more confident with at the time. The more time you spend practising and working with the new technique off stage, the more comfortable you'll become with it on stage and eventually you won't think about it any more. But if you do make a mistake, no matter. Every mistake is just a moment in time and nobody else thinks about it a fraction as long as we obsess over it.

Spot on! exactly what I am trying to do, but it takes its time I guess. Not easy, but I think perseverance is the key. I also follow the same rule off stage, wherein I practice with the new style, but I find myself nervous at times onstage and flip back to the older way.

Other than checking the position of the pick in your hand, I would suggest not looking at your picking hand while trying to play with the new pick position. When we look our brains try to produce a MOTION that looks like something we vaguely expect. But that usually works out very poorly. And this is music, not choreography. So close your eyes and LISTEN to the result. Just start with one note. No complex playing just yet, so you can focus your attention on just one thing - picking. Don't play too hard or to too soft, just alternate, up-down-up-down..., and try to keep the volume and tempo nice and smooth and even. Keep the tempo low to begin and gradually speed up. Remember - only judge the result on how it SOUNDs. Then try some simple open chord arpeggios, maybe some scale patterns, and then try some complex stuff. Think of the pick as "the eyes" of your hand. Your hand "sees" the strings through the tip of your guitar pick. You just moved the eyes to a different place, so some adjustment time is required and it won't be easy if you try complex stuff straight away.

These are wise words Sir I have been doing the exact same mistake, I try to look at my right hand to ensure I am doing things right, but it screws things up. I'll try and follow your suggestion.

As long as you play better it doesn't matter if you use a solid gold dinner plate or a postage stamp.

LoL . We've all tried playing with weird things I am sure, but the gold dinner plate is the best I've heard so far. Haha.

Thanks again!

 

[jff]

I pick the same way, left side tilted up a bit with right side of pick slicing down at an angle. I played that way long before I started sweeping. Also, I don't curl my index finger much. I've been playing a very long time. It works well for me. I don't do a lot of shredding, but I do shred a few Pagannini classical violin pieces transcribed for guitar. I also play classical guitar. I do keep my wrist tight and move my arm up and down when I do it. I never realized I was doing it differently than other players until a couple of years ago when I started watching youtube videos. If u decide you want to change it will require a lot of effort and discipline. I always used a metronome to gradually build speed. It can be done. Good luck.

 

[wynn]

An interesting technique to check out is gypsy picking, look up joscho stefan on YouTube to see it used to great effect, hard technique to get down though but adds some dynamics and rhythm to picking.


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[t_rod]

One way to get comfortable your grip is to keep a pick with you at all times and practice holding it throughout the day. If you're trying to hold it half way down your thumb and curled index it gives you a chance to play with different positions without a guitar so you can focus on feel. In my opinion, the best grip gives you a blend of a strong hold with minimal effort and also the most sensation/feedback.
Closer to the finger tips gives more sensation, but also is a bit weaker of a grip for me so its hard to play fast. Choked down deep into the fingers gives more security but its harder to play accurately if trying to string skip etc...

Pick angle is then determined more by wrist position, and you definitely want to cut through at an angle for that "scratchy" tone and speed. The JP Jazz IIIs are designed for this with their polished tip.

Just throwing that out there, maybe its helpful for you. If i'm off base here please feel free to correct me.