Rotten Stage sound last night

[ratfart]

Well, Played my first gig with the new Stingray5 and had a terrible time trying to get a good sound on stage.
Here's a link to the reply I posted this morning detailing my trials/tribulations last night.
I really need help solving this problem, I LOVE this new bass and everyone else that see's or hears it loves it too!


http://www.ernieball.com/forums/mus...ks-bass-central-beaver-felton.html#post499680

 

[Big Poppa]

first off start with everything flat....amp and bass and then start with subtle tweaks on the bass and then the amp....you have a ton of eq there

 

[Smakbass]

+1 I always have my amp flat to start, most time it stays that way but once in awhile I will dial in or out bass or mids to fit the room.

 

[TNT]

Rat,

We've all encountered that before!!

However, was this unique to this paticular "club"?, Did you do a SC?, or did you just not have the time to get to know your gear in advance?

The reason I ask is that for the most part my settings remain the same at ANY venue!! I only do "micro" tweaks at the sound check.

 

[ratfart]

Yep, had plenty of time to sound check and it started then. I have had the amp/cabinet for a few weeks and have used it in rehearsal and put in a bunch of hours on it. My MM was delivered on Thurs. So much less time with it.
Here's how I started. I had my amp settings flat right at 12:00 position, had my bass settings at "Hendrix" settings (all the way up). Realized right away I had to bring the bass down to about 60%, high at about 70% and switched the coil splitter to all three positions about a hundred times seeing if one gave me more "bite" on the lower end.
My concern is this; I bought this rig with a Warwick Corvette 5 string with passive pick ups, decided since I was burning a bunch of cash, might as well get the bass I've always wanted so I bought the MM SR5. I can return the Warwick to Guitar Center but I'm not sure if it isn't the better match for my rig.
My other concern is that the cabinet may be the issue. I may look into exchange for a 15 and 210 combo, but I've always played and loved 410's.
I'm so confused and my wife is gonna kill me if I don't resolve this soon!! She's getting tired of trips to the guitar shops, time on the internet and the endless thinking out loud!!

Help me out guys!!!

 

[ratfart]

OK, one other thing I noticed but forgot to mention in the post above was that my SR5 seems to have a very noticeable ringing overtone on the B-string, is that common?

I also should note that last night when I was having trouble getting the tone I wanted I switched to my Fender Power Jazz Special and the sound was awesome on stage! Tight, puchy, gritty and my slapping was brutally percussive, just the way you like it!!!

 

[mynan]

I think you need to take a more educated approach. Starting off "Hendrix style" with a new bass makes absolutely no sense. Take BPs advice above...everything flat...bass and amp...then make subtle adjustments. Personally, I would adjust the presence and contour on your GK first before the EQ on your amp or bass.

Also, if it sounded great in the audience then you were probably standing too close to your rig.

 

[carpedebass]

Distance from the cab is definitely a factor.

 

[Frantic Slayer]

I think you need to take a more educated approach. Starting off "Hendrix style" with a new bass makes absolutely no sense. Take BPs advice above...everything flat...bass and amp...then make subtle adjustments. Personally, I would adjust the presence and contour on your GK first before the EQ on your amp or bass.

Also, if it sounded great in the audience then you were probably standing too close to your rig.

I would have to agree, im no expert but i think hearing your bass with a flat eq would be key in the process of getting to know your instrument. Dont you want to hear how it sounds before making adjustments and changing things. How can you tweak the sound of bass when you cant hear the voice of the instrument. How can you adjust a wheel when you are unsure of the terrain. How can you spice a food when you have no idea what it tastes like. Im not going give off the illusion that im some kind of guru, or expert, but these are some ideas to think about.

 

[oddjob]

Turn your master volume down (I usually run mine at about 50-75%) and let the amp do the work. With 18 volts, even with the pad, you will overdrive the preamp... that will give you room to make some good, noticable eq adjustments (but like BP said, start flat). Get some distance from your amp. With a single cab on the floor, it is going to be harder to hear because the bass waves take longer to expand (or tilt your cab - usually not a good option).

 

[oddjob]

I would have to agree, im no expert but i think hearing your bass with a flat eq would be key in the process of getting to know your instrument. Dont you want to hear how it sounds before making adjustments and changing things. How can you tweak the sound of bass when you cant hear the voice of the instrument. How can you adjust a wheel when you are unsure of the terrain. How can you spice a food when you have no idea what it tastes like. Im not going give off the illusion that im some kind of guru, or expert, but these are some ideas to think about.

It isn't that... it is a question that the Bongo eq does a hell of a lot in VERY small increments (ie, turning the knob a little will get you a lot - more than most other basses). Set flat, gives you a neutral setting (for lack of anything better) - and it is generally very clear and clean , and will cut through... THEN season to taste

 

[Big Poppa]

two problems with the "Hendrix" sound...

he was a guitar player

and he played a passive instument...

Im not being a smartass but you are using a bass with a huge abount of eq whereas the passive ones dont have very much...start flat

 

[Chuck M]

I own several types of amplification and cabs. I've found, for my taste, I usually roll off some of the highs on my SR5 and it sounds great with all my amps.

Does it sound like your Fender bass? Uh, probably not, however, I think the SR5 is just about the ultimate 5 string for rock. Go slow here. One gig is not a true test of an instrument. Oh yeah, do start with every tone control centered. Make small tweaks as required to get the tone you want.

Also keep in mind that in some venues our basses sound bad to us. Sometimes the folks out front are loving our tone and we hate it. I play a venue that makes my upright sound lousy. I've finally arrived at some eq settings that work for me but the audience has always been enthusiastic about my bass sound in that club even when I thought it sucked.

Good luck to you, Bro.

Chuck

 

[ratfart]

OK, some of you fella's need to learn to read and then to realize I'm not bashing this SR5, I love it, but I gotta get a punchier bottom or I'm gonna freak!
The "Hendrix" statement about him being a guitar player, playing a passive instrument deserves a big NO ****!!! It was a figure of speech, that I've used among many a bandmate, maybe you didn't read the very next sentence that said, "I quickly realized I had to turn them all down" (paraphrased). Yes, I do normally start with everything flat and then make adjustments on my amp, as I did last night.

Did it sound like my Fender bass....NO, but my point wasn't the sound it was the definition/attack/punch that one was lacking and the other delivered. Don't jump up my butt because I got the sound that I was after with one versus the other, I'm actually hoping for some useful info here.

And to the fellow with all the advise on the Bongo, thanks, I'll keep it in mind if I ever buy one.

This place seemed pretty cool a couple of days ago, but now I see if things aren't all roses and puppy dogs it gets pretty hostile.

 

[bovinehost]

I think people were trying to give you well-intentioned advice, not jump up and down and mistreat you in any way.

I might have missed something.

In your other thread, I said I thought you were just too close to your cabinet. I've been forced into that setup a number of times, too, and could never get a decent sound out of my gear, although, like you, I was told it sounded fine out front.

I'll go back and re-read the thread and see if I get the hostility, but it seems to me that it was pretty level.

That's a pretty SR5 you have there.

Jack

 

[TNT]

Rat,

I understand your frustration, we've all been there.

However most all the replies I've read here are "sincere' extensions of help to you. Many here have taken the "time" to post what they think is a helpful solution.

NOTHING is more frustrating than playing live and all your thinking is "I want to kill this guy" (your sound)!!!

 

[ratfart]

Yes, I might have over-reacted, but I'm frustrated as can be with my current set up and telling me to set everything flat and make small adjustments is exactly what I did before arriving at the increments I mentioned in the other post. I think people read only the "Hendrix" statement and started typing without reading the rest.
Distance from my cabinet shouldn't make one bass sound very difined and punchy and the other muddy, I wouldn't think.
I have played this club several times, it is a "boomy" room, but I've never struggled with my tone so badly.
I cannot NOT hear what I'm playing and be happy about it.
Can anyone answer the B string question for me? I get these "overtones" ringing when I play the open B that I don't hear on my Warwick. These aren't my first 5's, I've been playing for about 25 years in various styles and have owned 5 strings from Peavey (one of the first year TL5's which I'd give anything to have back), some from the "F" that apparently no one here mentions and an Ibanez. I don't recall having that ringing with any of them. could it be the factory strings?
As for my tone, I'm going to try some compression and then I'll try a different cab, maybe the 410 Neo from GK doesn't like 5 strings, but I'd bet the 212 does.

 

[Big Poppa]

Hey Look....I only own the comapny and designed the bass and took my time on a sunday TWICE to give you real world advice and you snap back at me? If you dime an active bass your sound will suck.
I have a ton of live playing experience in USA ,Asia, and Europe I ve played on multiple grammy nominated CD's...I was really giving you good advice.....

Roses and puppy dogs? Maybe we should have said Geez, there is no hope.....

If you prefer your warwick and your fender then that is a wonderful situation. Not every tool fits every artist. Im just glad there are choices.........

 

[oli@bass]

Hi Rat,

Seeing the cab position in that pic in the other thread, I'd say your knees probably heard the bass very well and defined.... raise that cab!!! Use beer cases or bar stools, or whatever is available at the location, and bring the cab at about waist height. No more boom, all the clarity you can wish for.

About one bass sounding fine (to you) and the other not: That can pretty much happen due to some frequencies being reinforced or cancelled by the cab or the room. It can also be that the amp/cab combination plus the EQ-ing on the amp are beneficious (does that word exist?!) for one bass, while it wreaks havoc on the sound of another bass.

My impression is that the two basses you used have two very different natural sounds, and very different electronics. They are sonically miles away from one another, and therefore the cab/amp/EQ can be really good for one, while being really bad for the other.

About that ringing B: most probably a bad B string, from your description it sounds like the inner winding could have come loose.

What could be really helpful: If you have the means of recording your bass (EQ all flat) direct to the computer and putting up a soundfile to somewhere we can all access, we can a) tell whether your SR5 sounds like an SR5 is supposed to sound, and b) we can hear what exactly is wrong with your ringing B.

I sincerely hope that somehow your issues can be resolved (other than by using a different bass)

 

[Jimmyb]

^What they said.