Weak G-string output

[Mr_Phunk]

Hmm... man this thread has got me worried now. I have a 1990 SR4 which has problems with a weak G. It also has a couple of dead spots (6th to 8th fret). Actually it gets progressively weaker as you go from the 1st fret to the 7th. Posted a thread about it here: http://www.ernieball.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10912&page=1&pp=15

I've been emailing EB customer service back and forth trying to get this issue sorted out. Yesterday I took it to a place called the Bass Centre here in Melbourne hoping they might give me some idea on what we could do about it.

One of the guys there played it and didnt notice the difference (different amps kind of mask the problem a little). The second guy who checked it out (the tech) initially didnt notice it either until we compared it to another SR4 in the shop. That made it a bit more obvious! He told me he had no idea what could be done though

On that note, I mentioned that my biggest problem is with the G getting lost in the mix when I record it. He just smiled and said "Yeah, that's a stingray!". He claimed he had the same problem playing them live. My opinion is that it has something to do with the way the wood resonates, because I can hear (and feel) the weaker G when I play unamplified.

Funny thing is, the only reason I pulled the old SR out of the shed after sitting there for 10 years, is because I recorded another guys SR4 about a month ago. That particular SR sounded perfect in the mix and didnt have a weak G! So not all SR4s have this problem. It might just be the luck of the draw.

I'm now at the point where I'm thinking of sending it to EB so they can check it out. Sounds like an expensive exercise for something that might not be "fixable".

P.S. Mine is a 3 band eq too...

 

[Postal]

<we compared it to another SR4 in the shop. That made it a bit more obvious! He told me he had no idea what could be done though >

Mr. Phunk,

You might consider selling the one you own, and just get one that satisfies.
Sounds like that had at least one at the shop that you liked.

I have bought my share of basses over the years and if they are lacking in any way, off they go. Like the Precision I cited, it was hopeless. That being said, my StingRay has survived multiple cuts in the herd. It is a real good one.

I think the luck of the draw or whatever is based in fact somewhere.
I think it's the tonewoods, but no matter, if you are thinking there is a better way
to get the issue fixed, that's up to you.

Personally, I would get a different one that doesn't have the issue to begin with.
That way you can get on with the enjoyment of playing the bass.

 

[hankSRay]

Hmm lets think about this guys. Theres plenty of artists out there who use Rays to record with who sound great. Granted theres a fair amount of mixing that goes on but I'm sure theres a few things you could do to overcome the problem. I'm no expert of effects but wouldnt a bit of compression be a quick fix? Also the G never sounds weak when you slap/pop so maybe theres some technique altering to get more out of the G string. Just a thought.

 

[Mr_Phunk]

Postal: Yeah I'm thinking about selling it and buying another SR4. The tech also told me to just sell it. I just get a bad feeling in my gut knowing that someone else is going to buy my old bass and run into the same problems.

Another matter is the $. They are selling here for roughly half of what they cost new. So, if I wanted to get a new one, I might end up dishing out more cash than if I try to fix it. I don't know for sure because no one has been able to tell me so far.

HankSRay: Yes a lot can be done in the studio, but believe me, it's ALWAYS best to get a good signal IN before you start using effects to compensate. Sometimes it's impossible to "fix" it in the mix.

I tend to use quite a bit of compression anyway because I really like the sound of digging in HARD and getting that snappy/popping type sound. Btw, my G sounds weak while popping too.

 

[chopperguy99]

I tried some heavier guage flatwounds, and it seems to have helped a little. I am going to the store where I got it to get a new amp/cab (Eden wt800, 410xlt) and they usually have a couple 'rays in stock. I will a/b the new ones with mine, and see if there is a difference. Also try a bongo if one in stock. When changing strings, I cleaned her up real good, and there is not a cooler, more beautiful bass on the planet than my burnt apple with maple board. (sorry guys) I just may have to try another e.b. cause this problem, although insignificant to some, really handicaps this otherwise awesome bass.

 

[teonigil]

I tried some heavier guage flatwounds, and it seems to have helped a little. I am going to the store where I got it to get a new amp/cab (Eden wt800, 410xlt) ...

Try the D410XST as well, it's smaller, louder and handles lows much better.
Also make sure you're getting the WT800B, it's the newer version.

 

[chopperguy99]

One of the guys at the store has a used xlt of his own for cheap, so I figured id get his and a new one so they matched. they are both 8 ohm, so they should rock with the 800b. maybe overkill, but if nothing else, i could keep one on the trailer, one at rehersal spot, and have 2 for outdoor stuff and large clubs if needed.

 

[jasone]

Ok. Based on BP's contribution to this thread (thank you for your input BTW), one would expect a "different" response from the G-string on a Stingray 4 string bass (compared to say a typical Fender bass) because of the design of the preamp.

Wiith that said, what about the HH 4 string rays? Is the preamp design the same and would one expect the same effect ?

 

[teonigil]

One of the guys at the store has a used xlt of his own for cheap, so I figured id get his and a new one so they matched. they are both 8 ohm...

IMO, D410XLT + D410XST + WT800B will make a better set.
The XST is 8 Ohms as well. See if they got it in the store and give it a try, you'll be surprised of the difference between XST and XLT.

BTW, I won the Grand-Prize at the Eden wallpaper contest recently and won a nice combo (N15S ), they make great amps. My bigger set is exactly what I have recommended above and it sounds sweet with MM basses.

Here's the wallpaper: http://www.eden-electronics.com/funstuff/wallpaper.asp

Here's a few WT800 links just for fun:
http://users.cjb.net/teonigil/wt800iraqi.htm
http://users.cjb.net/teonigil/wt800japanese.htm
http://users.cjb.net/teonigil/wt800hebrew.htm

 

[jasone]

I just bought the WT800B. I've heard the same comment about how the XLT and XST sound so different. In what way would you say?

Are you running both cabs full range with your 800 (in bridge mode) to get 4ohms and the max 1200watts? Have you ever run it biamped? Until/if I get new cabs, I have an (8ohm) 4x10 SWR Goliath II cab and an (8ohm) 15" cab. The driver in the 15 cab needs replaced; when I get that taken care of, I'm gonna try the 800 biamped. Until then, I'm just running the 4x10 full range in bridged mode...

IMO, D410XLT + D410XST + WT800B will make a better set.
The XST is 8 Ohms as well. See if they got it in the store and give it a try, you'll be surprised of the difference between XST and XLT.

 

[teonigil]

I just bought the WT800B. I've heard the same comment about how the XLT and XST sound so different. In what way would you say?

Are you running both cabs full range with your 800 (in bridge mode) to get 4ohms and the max 1200watts? Have you ever run it biamped? .

I always bridge and never bi amp. I hate bi amping because the sound is not in focus and tends to be "hollow" and I bridge in order to get the maximum out of the amp. I used to bi amp in the past (not sure why...) but after the first few gigs opening for Iron Maiden I was advised by one of the technical guys to use full range and I was blown away... used bridged mode ever since.
The WT800B will deliver 1100 Watts into 4 Ohms and both cabs can handle 1700 Watts. I have recently discovered that I actually like the D410XST by itself, so this way the amp is bridged in 8 Ohms and delivers 880 Watts when the cab can handle 1000 Watts. This is a better match and also smaller in size.
This is the reason why I thought you should try the XST. Even if you'll get a great deal on the XLT.... still... try the XST, it can't be described in words, you'll have to give it a listen (in real situation if possible - not in the store only). IMO it's the best single cab out there.

 

[jasone]

This is the reason why I thought you should try the XST. Even if you'll get a great deal on the XLT.... still... try the XST, it can't be described in words, you'll have to give it a listen (in real situation if possible - not in the store only). IMO it's the best single cab out there.

That was ChopperGuy99 with the great deal on the XLT, but thanks for the input!

 

[teonigil]

That was ChopperGuy99 with the great deal on the XLT, but thanks for the input!

I know bro.
What I meant was that there are many XLT's out there for sale but hardly any XST's as it's a newer product.

 

[chopperguy99]

I will try one out. Saving money is less important than sacrificing tone. Steve harris is one of my favorite bassists. I would kill to open for a band of that caliber. congrats!

 

[teonigil]

I'm sure you're going to love the XST, the low end is massivly tight when using a Stingray.
and yeah, it was fun. I wasn't using MM at the time (it's a Spector) but here's a picture anyway...

 

[Big Poppa]

hey guys how about starting a new thread and putting this to bed

 

[jasone]

We did get a little off topic... sorry about that. I did have an "on-topic" post go unnoticed in regards to the HH 'ray and the preamp design. I've reposted it below...

===========================

Ok. Based on BP's contribution to this thread (thank you for your input BTW), one would expect a "different" response from the G-string on a Stingray 4 string bass (compared to say a typical Fender bass) because of the design of the preamp.

Wiith that said, what about the HH 4 string 'rays? Is the preamp design the same and would one expect the same effect ?

 

[5Stringer]

We should wait and see on this one. The basic preamp and pickup design isn't going to be radically different than the current one other than to accommodate the new pickup and switching arrangements. It seems entirely likely that a neck position pickup will have a different effect with the G string issue. We'll have to wait and see when the final product is out. In the meantime, it seems appropriate to remind folks that a lot of this "quieter" G string issue is largely a matter of technique and style. I think most bass players know that if they want to let a note ring out, they would use a different string than the one with the least amount of mass. I don't know of too many playing situations where a bassist would need to have high notes have great sustain or high volume, but as has been stated on this thread already, hitting the same note on a lower string seems the best way to accomplish this when this is required. It's a matter of physics, really .. the string with the least mass will have the least amount of volume and sustain. What I do is string a set of 45-100 Super Slinky Bass strings, and replace the .45 with a .50 gauge. That seems to work very well, not just for me but for many of the players I have advised to do this over the years.

"That's all I have to say about that" Forrest Gump, 1994

Dan

 

[superseed]

I had a nice trans red Stingray years back that had said problem. I tried many things too to no avail, so I unfortunately got rid of it at an ashamingly low price. Knowing what I know now I would have kept it for sure and lived with the "glitch" and the company of not the only one to question the phenomena, especially having a beautiful birdseye maple neck. My Sterling, however, has no G or D string problems at all and they ring loud n' proud!

'excuse while I kick myself again for the above ignorance'