HS NT: a whole lot different than what I'm used to

[nhbassguitar]

FedEx finally showed up with my SR4 NT HS. First thing I did was install the strap locks. I always wondered how come Schaller kits include a pair of longer screws, 'cause the shorter ones are perfect for my PBs. Well, now I know. Those screws' length is identical to the ones MM uses for the strap buttons, but boy those suckers went in hard, especially the one down near the bridge.

The Sweetwater setup was ballpark close. I had to intonate two strings, but just a bit. Neck relief was a little more than I like to see, but I left it alone so things get a chance to stabilize in the cold climate up here. Pickup heights were way off -- way too close to the strings, causing fretted notes upscale of, say, the 5th fret to be much louder than those below. I dropped both pickups way down. One thing I noted is that the pickup height screws run very smooth, and the pickups themselves don't hang up inside their cutouts. So, nice accurate tolerances. The Fender scheme is no less effective, but it feels primitive in comparison.

After hearing some really weird fhit going on with fret-to-fret intonation and wild differences in harmonic structure from string to string and fret to fret (like many notes sounding like they were being played on different basses), I almost sent the bass back to Sweetwater. But then I figured, what the heck, I'll take off the EB 2834s and put on my favorites, which I use on everything: Roto RS66LC.

*BAM*, total transformation. Consistency, evenness everywhere up and down and side to side, and all strings the same volume. And neck relief decreased to what I consider more-reasonable. With that episode concluded... now I see why you guys love these basses. This thing is worlds apart from my Precisions (American, Mexican with a '63 Pure Vintage PU, and a Cabronita). The first thing I noticed is you can't be lazy when you play, because if you mess up your timing by just a millisecond, or you don't fret a note quite right, the SR will throw it right back in your face. I do a lot of metronome work, and I practice primarily to synth/dance music where you can't cheat the word clock, as they say. I think the Precisions round off notes' leading edges, so they're forgiving if you're not 100% locked into the click. This SR is not at all forgiving. It's extremely responsive, with a razor-like attack. It demands vigilance in your technique. So, I think this BG will make me a better player.

The geometry of the SR seems to depart a bit from the Precision, especially once I approach the 12th fret. It's almost like I need to maintain a different wrist angle to reach the higher notes. I'll need some time to get used to it.

I think it's strange that there's nothing included in the case pertaining to neck adjustment -- neither a tool nor documentation. Doesn't bother me personally 'cause I've been doing setups since the early '70s, but I could see this absence leaving some people scratching their heads (or not bothering to adjust the neck at all, either because they think it's not needed or because they think it has to be a shop job that'll cost standard rate). Fender does a far better job here.

I was amazed at the output level differences among the switch positions. The HB with both coils in is a monster. The single coil at the neck heel is wimpy, relatively speaking. But it does make the instrument sound a bit like a '51 Precision. My favorite settings are the two that include both pickups. However, that could change as I play around more with the HB alone. Friedland did a good video showing how to EQ the H model. I just need to spend the time. So far I've been running everything flat, or cutting back the treble. Lots more to do here.

I waited for a heavy SH before I ordered. This one's 10/3. It's the first BG I've owned where you can't feel any string vibration through the body. That tells me it's staying within the instrument rather than mechanically leaking out. Sustain for days. Can't find any dead spots.

The case is well-made but I wish the strap cutouts were bigger, 'cause my Levy's wide strap with the Schaller clamps won't fit either cutout without forcing the case closed, and no way am I going to do that. The full length neck support is a good idea, though. BTW, my cheap SKB case for one of my Precisions does have a nice big strap cutout and a full length neck support. I can get the Levy's and a spare string set in there. For the MM, I'd rather see one large strap cutout than two smaller ones. However, no big deal 'cause I carry two gig bags. I just need to change my pre-flight checklist appropriately.

The 10,000 foot view, and I'm speaking only for myself, is that I expected this instrument to feel and play like a Fender, like it was a close relative. Not sound like one -- just fit and feel like one. But my hands feel a world of difference between this thing and my Precisions. Like totally different bloodlines. I don't know if you guys had the same reaction when you bought your first SR.

Requisite crappy proof-of-ownership pic from a crappy smartphone. Sorry for the mess, room is being reconfigured.

 

[nurnay]

The 10,000 foot view, and I'm speaking only for myself, is that I expected this instrument to feel and play like a Fender, like it was a close relative. Not sound like one -- just fit and feel like one. But my hands feel a world of difference between this thing and my Precisions. Like totally different bloodlines. I don't know if you guys had the same reaction when you bought your first SR.
View attachment 29216

Glad you like it, it looks great! I would never expect a Ray (or any other EBMM) to play or feel like a Fender, I got my first Ray because I wanted a different sound than Fender - I always loved the Ray tone. I've been tempted to try to NT, but love the bolt on as is. Enjoy that beast!

 

[syciprider]

It's Leo's lessons learned bass so of course it won't feel like a Fender

I recently changed to Rotosound 66s and the E string's fundamental wasn't as strong as I wanted although the rest of them sound great.

 

[nurnay]

It's Leo's lessons learned bass so of course it won't feel like a Fender

I recently changed to Rotosound 66s and the E string's fundamental wasn't as strong as I wanted although the rest of them sound great.

Instead of the factory Super Slinkys I string Medium or the Cobalts. Can't lose there.

 

[Tollywood]

Welcome to the forum. Congrats on that sweet neck through Stingray.

 

[rorycalhoun]

Beautiful instrument, congratulations!

 

[sanderhermans]

Hi welcome to the forum and congrats on that beautifull bass.
I had a few rays befor i got my HH sr4. And at first i was loving the extra tones. Especially the split humbuckers neck and bridge togheter. But as time passed i found myself going back to the good old bridge humbucker. Nothing really beats that tone for me. I can see uses for dual pickup stingrays in cover bands with a whole aray of songs but for manny styles of rock ect. The bridge humbucker is just all you need...

 

[nhbassguitar]

Thanks for all the kind words, guys.

This forum is great. Yesterday I was trying to figure out how come my intonation was off (always sharp) all over the neck but was spot on at the octave. So I spent an hour here and dug out every thread I could find on the problem. Turns out the problem was me. It was a combination of pulling the string slightly laterally, and pressing too hard. The breakthrough came early this morning around 5 AM when I sat down with the bass (rather than stand with it strapped on), Snark clipped to the headstock, and approached the problem quietly, playing one note at a time, pressing straight down but not too hard. First note: in tune. A different note same way: in tune. One by one, playing each note, pressing straight down, not too hard. Yep, all of 'em were in tune. Man, did I feel like an idiot.

Maybe I don't see this with my Precisions because the neck radius on those is different and the necks aren't as beefy. So maybe my hand "internals" have locked into that geometry and I don't even know it. Just in the last couple of hours I've heard a lot of improvement (compared to yesterday) as I play along with songs I need to learn. Everything's starting to match perfectly tuning-wise, compared to the recordings.

Except for one praise band I play with. I was going nuts trying to figure out how come everything sounds maybe one cent off all over the place. Yeah, you guessed it -- the CD itself is off. Gah...... Audacity to the rescue.

 

[Kong]

Welcome to the EB Forum!

I never felt the need to have more basses of a single brand, because there are so much bass luthiers out there. Let's say, so much basses, so little time.

I started with a Single H Ray 5 in 2002 and found this axe the best 5 string bass the best one I ever have played.

This was the moment I got that infection. Today I have three Rays, my beloved Ray 5, a Ray 5 Classic and a Ray 4 with 3 bd EQ.

Last week the first EB - Bass with more than one pickup came to me, a beautiful Big Al 5 SSS. And there is more to come. Next week my first doublebuck EB - bass will join the flock, and again a different animal, a Bongo HH with all rosewood neck.

Ok, there are still some basses from other builders. You need a Precision Bass when you are a working musician, there is a Haeussel Jazz 5 and some more that are real keepers. But there will be no other basses that will come to me but Music Man basses.

Gesendet von meinem GT-I8200N mit Tapatalk

 

[nhbassguitar]

Kong, and you other folks with MM families, those sound like great collections. I see what you mean by "infection." And I've had the bass for only a couple of days. If I were to expand my MM family, I'd probably add a black 4H. I don't know if I'd get a NT or a bolt-on. I like the idea of the black headstock matching the black body (a vote for the NT). I don't know if the bolt-ons can give the piano-like sustain the NTs do. At this point I know relatively nothing about MM basses.

I almost bought one of those Sabre reissues from Basscentral, but the neck radius wouldn't work for me in light of the non-adjustability of the pickup pole pieces. I've had too many Jazz basses where I've had to do battle with those G and E strings' volume swamping the other two strings' volume, and so I figured I didn't need to walk down that road again. Maybe MM takes neck radius into account in the pickup design. I have no idea.

The Precisions are (or were) great because live music is a war zone when it comes to logistics, especially when people are trying to solve problems with only 10 minutes left on the countdown clock. Stuff gets stepped on, dropped, tripped over. My Precisions getting scuffs or dents doesn't bother me in the least, though I guess it won't bother me with this SR once it gets its first dent. Also, Precisions are the most widely-used bass in the type of music I play these days, and so it's the "safe bet," as they say. Typically its minor shortcomings can be addressed with the DSP functions present in all of today's digital boards. Third, sound systems and the people who run them can be good or terrible or anything in between, and oftentimes the crowds are noisy, so the differences among various basses almost always disappear once the music begins. I am hoping this last fact changes, however, as I get to play with better and better teams, through better and better systems.

This point isn't really related, but I remember running a Flatirons [1] playlist at home in the background while I was doing something else. A song came up where the bass was just so totally locked in and solid and well-played, I had to stop what I was doing and watch to see if the camera would give a view of the player. It did. His bass was an old and sort of worn out-looking black 4H. The player was an older guy, and he was 10 out of 10 in terms of timing and feel, like totally pro-level, A-list studio quality. The combination of a bass that sounded that solid and even no matter what note was being played or where it was being played on the fretboard, and a player who had it that together, was what finally pushed me over the edge to buy a SR.

[1] A church in Colorado state, U.S.

 

[nurnay]

Kong, and you other folks with MM families, those sound like great collections. I see what you mean by "infection." And I've had the bass for only a couple of days. If I were to expand my MM family, I'd probably add a black 4H. I don't know if I'd get a NT or a bolt-on. I like the idea of the black headstock matching the black body (a vote for the NT). I don't know if the bolt-ons can give the piano-like sustain the NTs do. At this point I know relatively nothing about MM basses.

You can get matching headstocks on bolt on Rays as well.

 

[steevo]

Id always been a fender man and i think for most people they hold a special place in their heart because of what they are.
However, musicman, as working instruments, are by far the best performing and best built basses and guitars ive ever played.
I have a sterling 5 HH and it does absolutley everything, from p bass to j bass and everything else you could ever need. I dont think ill ever go back to a single pickup bass again, that neck pickup is as sweet as honey. Im currently on the lookout for a better amp to do it justice. I think an ampeg svt is on the cards.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

[nhbassguitar]

You can get matching headstocks on bolt on Rays as well.

Whoa, ok, that got my attention.

 

[Golem]

Welcome !

and BTW there's a reason that EBMM basses
always ship without a neck adjuster tool. No
special tool has been required. Most of us use
a framing nail or anything about that size. If
the NT basses use the same adjusting wheel
as the BO basses, just use a 10-penny nail or
a smallish philips screw driver, ice pick, etc

You will find that the neck PU is not the extra
bright sooper-close-to-bridge type. It's in the
same spot as the single PU MM basses. This
position is magic. Even if you dial most of the
brightness OUT of your tone, there seems to
be something about that PU position that can
be heard thru a noisy room without having to
be extra loud nor extra bright. IOW, you will
also be helping your bandmates to be heard
cuz the room isn't all smothered in loud thud.
Make very sure that they appreciate that ;-)

 

[nhbassguitar]

Hey Golem, thanks for the info. Yeah, this is tool city around here, so I've got craploads of stuff that'll fit those little holes.

On the humbucker vs neck pickup subject, one of my (probably too few) positive attributes as a bass player is I play super clean and I make huge efforts not to generate subharmonics. I play with a fairly light touch way down near the bridge (thumb anchored). On all my Precisions I have a rubber foot glued to the pickguard south of the E/A pickup half (or near the bottom half of the Cabronita pickup) because using the pickups as an anchor is too far north for me.

Much of the music I'm called up to play these days requires depth and sometimes -- strangely enough -- a lack of definition. For the most part, the genre likes the bass to have an almost ambient, in-the-background feel, and in terms of frequency slotting, leaving a lot of unoccupied space in the middle and top of its range. Or, sometimes I'll have to play a song where I need to sound like a Precision played with a pick and the tone control wide open, so the neck pickup alone is great for that. But, to your point, one of my favorite bands (Elevation Worship) often has the bass sitting right up front in the mix, with lots of low mid content. "Already Won" is a perfect example. Made for the bridge humbucker alone, as you stated. The song wouldn't work with any other pickup combination. Finger Eleven's "Paralyzer" and Chevelle's "The Red" are the same deal.

I don't think I've ever played a bass guitar that's so versatile, and as a contract player, that's important to me because I never know what I'm going to get hit with from week to week. I've had this SR for only a couple of days and I've only scratched the surface.

BTW I like the last line of your sig. Amen to that.

 

[steevo]

Hey Golem, thanks for the info. Yeah, this is tool city around here, so I've got craploads of stuff that'll fit those little holes.

On the humbucker vs neck pickup subject, one of my (probably too few) positive attributes as a bass player is I play super clean and I make huge efforts not to generate subharmonics. I play with a fairly light touch way down near the bridge (thumb anchored). On all my Precisions I have a rubber foot glued to the pickguard south of the E/A pickup half (or near the bottom half of the Cabronita pickup) because using the pickups as an anchor is too far north for me.

Much of the music I'm called up to play these days requires depth and sometimes -- strangely enough -- a lack of definition. For the most part, the genre likes the bass to have an almost ambient, in-the-background feel, and in terms of frequency slotting, leaving a lot of unoccupied space in the middle and top of its range. Or, sometimes I'll have to play a song where I need to sound like a Precision played with a pick and the tone control wide open, so the neck pickup alone is great for that. But, to your point, one of my favorite bands (Elevation Worship) often has the bass sitting right up front in the mix, with lots of low mid content. "Already Won" is a perfect example. Made for the bridge humbucker alone, as you stated. The song wouldn't work with any other pickup combination. Finger Eleven's "Paralyzer" and Chevelle's "The Red" are the same deal.

I don't think I've ever played a bass guitar that's so versatile, and as a contract player, that's important to me because I never know what I'm going to get hit with from week to week. I've had this SR for only a couple of days and I've only scratched the surface.

BTW I like the last line of your sig. Amen to that.

Do you find the neck pickup can get close to the precision sound?
My sterling does, though they are different pickups, is got a lovely growl to it and using the 5 way switch brings out some gorgeous sweept spots.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

 

[nhbassguitar]

Hey Steevo, yeah, I think the HS neck pickup alone can approximate the PB sound. It's not exact, but it does nail that sort of thuddy-sounding bottom plus papery-sounding top with a heavy dose of midrange suckout. I don't know how else to describe it. I sounds closer to a '51 single-coil, however, because it doesn't have any of the split-pickup PB's aggressive midrange on the D and G strings. Slides from fret to (distant) fret don't have anywhere near the mid grunt or the semi-fretless character my two split pickup PBs do. Part of that might be the SR's slightly higher frets than the PBs, though I haven't had time to pull out the feeler gauges and verify that suspicion. And then of course the PB's D/G pickup half is located closer to the bridge, so you're naturally going to get more "mwaaah" out of it on a slide. I see myself using that bridge neck pickup only for songs where the bass track was done on a PB with a pick and the treble control was wide open. I'm not saying it wouldn't work for other things, though. I just haven't had the time to try. This week I really need to spend a few hours forcing myself to use just the neck pickup for a wide assortment of material, then force myself to do the same with the bridge humbucker. Problem is, I'm so impressed with the two switch positions that use both pickups.

Anyway, I just got back from a gig. The SR performed flawlessly, stayed in tune, was utterly noise-free, and all that business. (BTW, forgot to mention earlier I dosed all the tuners' sliding surfaces with CLP, which really smoothed them out.) I took out my in-ears for a bit during pre-show run-through, and I was surprised how much more even the bass sounded in the mains than any of my PBs. No matter what note I played or where on the neck I played it, it sounded the same (tonally / harmonic-content-wise as well as volume-wise) as every other note, almost as if some mild compression were present. I checked with the guys running the board, and they said nope, no dynamics processing on that channel. Still kinda shell-shocked at how frickin' good this instrument is.......

 

[Rick Auricchio]

Slides from fret to (distant) fret don't have anywhere near the mid grunt or the semi-fretless character my two split pickup PBs do..

I must confess that distortion-grunt is something that immediately identifies a PB to my ear. The effect seems more noticeable on a drag to a lower pitch over several frets. It's a sound that none of my other basses can make. (But the SR4 is my main player nonetheless.)

An excellent example of this grunt can be found in Orleans' "Dance With Me" at 2:02 in this video as Larry Hoppen drags down from the 17th fret of the G.

 

[nhbassguitar]

I spent some time today using only the neck pickup, and then using only the bridge humbucker.

I was surprised how tight and clean and even the neck pickup sounded on its own. My favorite tone setting was highs rolled completely off, and the mids and bass flat. In a strange way it reminded me of your typical PB where it doesn't sound that great on its own, but something magic happens when it's put into a mix and it just settles right in. I couldn't find any type of music that the neck pickup alone wouldn't do at least a very good job on.

The bridge pickup alone took some dialing in for me to like it. I rolled off the highs completely, and rolled the mids off halfway (right between center detent and full off). As for the bass control, I found its knee point way too low to do anything but add ultra-deep bass that could spell trouble downstream without a subsonic filter somewhere in the chain. That's not what I was looking for. So I left it flat. It sounded pretty good that way. I added the little extra beef it needed with just the slightest 50 Hz boost on a Boss GEB-7. I like that little equalizer for four reasons. First, its lowest slider (the 50 Hz one) is a peaking control, not shelving, so any subsonic garbage it adds will be minimal. Second, the choice of 50 Hz is wise; I might've chosen 60 instead, but 50 isn't bad. Third, the Q of that filter is just the right value not to affect the low mids and not to affect the subsonic region (or at least not transform it into a driver-shredding sea of mud), while at the same time covering a reasonably wide range. Fourth, it definitely sounds like variable-Q, which I say because I never hear "peakiness" at low settings. With that little extra grunt from the GEB-7, I liked the bridge pickup a lot.

So, when it came to using only one pickup, I'd have to say that without the GEB-7, I preferred the neck pickup. With the GEB-7, I'd say it was a toss-up. The only thing I found the bridge pickup could not do is mimic a Precision with its treble wide open, played with a pick. The clank wasn't there. But it would be unfair to expect something from a pickup positioned suboptimally for that type of work.

By the way, I haven't touched the tuning since I tuned it yesterday at 8 AM for the pre-show run-through. It hasn't budged, even though it's gone through a few minor temp cycles here.

Thanks, Music Man. Great piece of work, extremely high materials and build quality, and I'm glad I made the purchase.

 

[drTStingray]

U

I spent some time today using only the neck pickup, and then using only the bridge humbucker.

I was surprised how tight and clean and even the neck pickup sounded on its own. My favorite tone setting was highs rolled completely off, and the mids and bass flat. In a strange way it reminded me of your typical PB where it doesn't sound that great on its own, but something magic happens when it's put into a mix and it just settles right in. I couldn't find any type of music that the neck pickup alone wouldn't do at least a very good job on.

The bridge pickup alone took some dialing in for me to like it. I rolled off the highs completely, and rolled the mids off halfway (right between center detent and full off). As for the bass control, I found its knee point way too low to do anything but add ultra-deep bass that could spell trouble downstream without a subsonic filter somewhere in the chain. That's not what I was looking for. So I left it flat. It sounded pretty good that way. I added the little extra beef it needed with just the slightest 50 Hz boost on a Boss GEB-7. I like that little equalizer for four reasons. First, its lowest slider (the 50 Hz one) is a peaking control, not shelving, so any subsonic garbage it adds will be minimal. Second, the choice of 50 Hz is wise; I might've chosen 60 instead, but 50 isn't bad. Third, the Q of that filter is just the right value not to affect the low mids and not to affect the subsonic region (or at least not transform it into a driver-shredding sea of mud), while at the same time covering a reasonably wide range. Fourth, it definitely sounds like variable-Q, which I say because I never hear "peakiness" at low settings. With that little extra grunt from the GEB-7, I liked the bridge pickup a lot.

So, when it came to using only one pickup, I'd have to say that without the GEB-7, I preferred the neck pickup. With the GEB-7, I'd say it was a toss-up. The only thing I found the bridge pickup could not do is mimic a Precision with its treble wide open, played with a pick. The clank wasn't there. But it would be unfair to expect something from a pickup positioned suboptimally for that type of work.

By the way, I haven't touched the tuning since I tuned it yesterday at 8 AM for the pre-show run-through. It hasn't budged, even though it's gone through a few minor temp cycles here.

Thanks, Music Man. Great piece of work, extremely high materials and build quality, and I'm glad I made the purchase.

Glad you are enjoying your Stingray. I haven't played a neck through one yet but am looking forward to doing so at some stage.

The MM 3 band EQ does indeed have a filter which cuts boomy frequencies (I can't remember the exact range it cuts but someone else may remember) - you can see this when looking at the frequency curve when recording - there's a notch in the frequencies. This enable the bass boost to be used without introducing boomy noises.

A standard EQ setting for the bridge pick up on a 3 band Stingray is slight bass boost, slight treble boost and slight mid cut - this gives a classic MM sound (fairly similar to a 2 band MM bass). I find that dialling in both pick ups requires the bass to be no more than centre detent with the mids boosted - with both pick ups, there is a scooped sound (which is great for slap). As I say, I've not had the pleasure of trying the NT version and look forward to doing so.