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Colin
Well-known member
Nice to see you here Beth 
PugNinjas
Well-known member
Jay Leno look-a-like?
Pug
Pug
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Personally, I despise that show. However, my GF watches it, therefore I've watched more often than I'd like. Given all the candidates for the 'Idol' title. He definitely was one of my favorites. The girl, while she had an excellent voice, was too 'cookie-cutter' to me. How many pretty girls with good voices do you need to hear? Taylor was definitely different, unique and had a strong personality which helped him win. I was glad to see he won.
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Adwex
Well-known member
Taylor is fun to watch, he's got alot of charisma, but Kat's "Over The Rainbow" stood out as my favorite performance of the whole season.
edensdad
Well-known member
I've actually been feeling like I've become so cynical and lost my innocence to the point that I can't take part in Pop-culture. What I mean by that, with all due respect to anyone into the show, is that when I see stuff like American Idol or some of the other "popular shows", I can't get past the feeling that they are contrived and shallow. I can't take them seriously. I actually miss the days when I could get sucked into some hollywood phenom.
Having said that, some of the smartest, nicest people in my friends and family7 are addicted to it.
I'm sure these people are talented, maybe I'm missing the point. I'm glad it makes you happy.
Having said that, some of the smartest, nicest people in my friends and family7 are addicted to it.
I'm sure these people are talented, maybe I'm missing the point. I'm glad it makes you happy.
letthemeatwar
New member
- Joined
- May 21, 2006
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- 2
It gets addictive, to watch, but I think it messes up people's perception of how the music industry works. It helps an artist/singer get attention, but if you don't get hooked up with a good songwriter or are not a good songwriter your first album will flop. They just make everything seem so easy. Which it's not.
This year my favorite was Chris...I'm glad Taylor won over Kat. Never been a big fan of Kat. She has a good voice, but her delivery in my opinion wasn'y very good. She always seemed over the top.
This year my favorite was Chris...I'm glad Taylor won over Kat. Never been a big fan of Kat. She has a good voice, but her delivery in my opinion wasn'y very good. She always seemed over the top.
edensdad
Well-known member
I don't know if it's an elitist attitude, but if people don't create music, they're just players, not artists. The only exception in my mind is people who change something dramatically and make it their own or have a deep, heartfelt connection to a song and they put that energy into the song. But if people are just being a karaoke machine . . . Sure it takes ability and hard work, but what's the point, it's been done before. I guess that's why I don't play many covers.
>^..^<
>^..^<
guitrr
Well-known member
blackspy said:
The whole Idol phenomenon disgusts me. I don't think there's been a non-cookiecutter person on Idol since that fat guy won. That show has nothing to do with talent, it has everything to do with marketability. Idol is the epitome of the pre-fab schleck music that the corporate recording industry, profit margin suit types love. And they wonder why their sales are dropping like an anvil over Wiley Coyote?
As a musician, you should say 1,000 Hail Jimi's just for watching that show
Thank you all, I will step down from my soapbox now.
Kane
kevin
Ernie Ball Customer Service
wow.....we've got some excellent points here. The one thing that every musician needs to understand is that "Pop" music isn't going any were... yes(most of the time) its cookie cutter artists singing songs that have been handed to them like a Quarter pounder at the drive through window. But....as long as that genre of music keeps selling millions of records(to 13 year olds) labels will keep putting it out. You can't blame the label and you can't blame the artist either.......Say what you will but i have a feeling that if Kathrene Mcphee needed a bass or guitar player for her band.....we'd have numerious people lining up....
edensdad
Well-known member
Why is she switching to Prog Metal?
guitrr
Well-known member
kevin said:
Pardon me for seeming obtuse, but who's Kathrene Mcphee? Is she an Idol contestant?
And I'm not kidding, I have no idea who that is. You can tell I haven't exactly got my finger on the pulse of pop music. Since my kid grew up and moved away, I'm clueless about anything current in the music world!
Kane
Yes, she is an idol contestant. She was one of the top 2 but lost to Tayor Hicks. I don't need to say Hail Jimi for anything that I watch, I watch what I want and I refuse to be judged for it. I like American Idol because it shows what talent is out there and how they fit into today's music industry. It's really valuable having experts like Simon Cowell and Randy Jackson tellin' it like it is directly to the contestants' faces. And, it being packaged in a nice, cheesy format that's digestible for all viewers has made it the #1 show on television.
guitrr
Well-known member
Beth,
Sorry for the ruffled feathers, and you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
Kane
Sorry for the ruffled feathers, and you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
Kane
Norrin Radd
Well-known member
kevin said:
Dibs!!!
My wife got me started on watching idol. I think it's actually pretty entertaining (except for those stupid "Golden Idol" awards in the finale - come on!). We watch each season and usually have some pretty good laughs. During the first rounds we always pick who we think will/should win. Last year I picked Carrie Underwood and this year I picked McPhee. Not bad, huh?
Plus, I think Simon may be the only honest person on television. I wish we got to hear more of his critiquing of the contestants.
Do you know with whom Idol has become extremely popular? Artists trying to sell records. I read an article (I think on CNN) about how in the first season they had trouble getting pros to come and help, but after seeing what happens to records sales figures, artists have been asking to come on the show and assist. Pretty interesting. Besides, where else are you gonna' see Prince make an unannounced guest appearance?
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guitrr
Well-known member
Beth said:
Beth,
After writing my last entry, I walked away from the computer. It seemed that your reply insinuated that you were somewhat insulted from my looking down at American Idol, and its success. I didn't mean to insult anyone except maybe the powers that be at the big record companies. It definitely was not my intention to "judge" you, or the contestants. I apologize for any slight.
Anyhow, I do need to thank you for something, which is this: I couldn't get what you wrote off my mind, and was forced to take some time to consider exactly what it is about the whole American Idol phenomenon that seems to get under my skin and bother me so much.
You seem to feel I am questioning the talent of AI contestants; not at all. I'm sure once they get the group down to the top 100 or so, they are all very talented (and probably are all capable of making a hit record). Show business, and the fringes of show business, is chock full of thousands of immensely talented individuals. I never questioned their talent, I just said the show is not about talent, it's about marketability. Prove me wrong.
As far as having "experts" like Simon, Paula, and Randy, "tellin' it like it is" - hogwash. What makes them any more qualified than you or I to judge this show is beyond me. They are entertaining to watch, and together comprise a good ensemble, but "experts"? Hmmm... Just because someone is put forth to you as an "expert", don't unquestioningly accept that as fact.
In considering what to write here, I looked up the backround of all three of them. Simon started out as a record producer, then came to prominence on Pop Idol, the British forerunner to American Idol. Paula was a dance choreographer who then became a pop singer. Randy was a bass player in some respected bands. All bass player jokes aside, Randy is the only one I would personally respect one iota as a musician. Paula is a musician like Britney Spears is a musician. They sang on pop records with hired studio guns. Just because you can sing doesn't make you a musician. And producing records takes an ability to recognize musical talent, I'll give you that one, but is more about making a record that will sell. Which again, I'll say to you is the reason for AI's exsistence.
Next, it bugs me as a musician that the contestants are passed off to the American public as musicians. What I would put forth is that most of those people are entertainers, not musicians. A subjective matter, to be sure, and sometimes there's a fine line between the two. Interacting musically with others, truly making music, makes one a musician. Karaoke singers are NOT musicians! To me, Miles Davis was a musician, Diana Krall is a musician, Tom Petty is a musician, Albert Lee is a musician. Madonna is an entertainer, Christina Aguilera is an entertainer, The BackStreet Boys are entertainers, and most certainly Kelly Clarkson is an entertainer. I readily admit that this is something very open to opinion, and mine is no more valid than anyone else's, but I dare say that with this being a musician's forum, most of those here are probably of a similar opinion, so I suppose I'm preaching to the choir. That is one reason your reply to my original post caught me so offguard; I just wasn't expecting that on a musician's forum.
Like much of the music that sells well, most of the music on Idol, and almost all of the music put out by former Idol winners, is Pop music. Which brings me to my final point, your comment about "how they fit into today's music industry". Exactly! THAT is what I don't like about Idol! Today's music industry is mostly drivel, geared to the lowest common denominator, to be digestible by the masses. I.E., let's sell as many records as possible. Ask any record producer, including Simon - don't bring in a single at 4 minutes and 1 second; it's marketing suicide to bring in a tune not under 4 minutes long. It is all about money, it is NOT about music. If three million people would pay $17.00 for a book of cartoons, we'd have the show American Cartoonist. Those recording industry moguls don't care a whiff about the music, they want the dollars. But the public keeps gobbling it up.
I'm not going to change that, you're not going to change that, all the players here on the EBMM forum aren't going to change that, and sadly, the EBMM endorsors aren't either. It's an old story, but as a musician I find it tragic that Eric Johnson, John Petrucci, Albert Lee, Diana Krall, Joe Bonamassa, Susan Tedeschi, and others are relative unknowns, but everyone knows Kelly Clarkson, who isn't one tenth the musician that those others are. That's pop culture, what can you say?
Do I sound like a crotchety old man about this? A music snob? Hahaha, probably. Guilty as charged. But I bet you could find thousands of 20-something bar band musicians who sound like this too. (And I'm not that old)
By the way, if you want to see "What talent is out there", go to the Montreux Jazz Festival, the New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival, a symphony performance, any music educator's conference, The Chicago Blues Fest, or a convention of the Sweet Adelines. Or for that fact, go to the nearest yuppie bar and watch the Friday night dance band.
This whole Pop Music matter reminds me of a story about Miles. I'm paraphrasing here, as I don't have the actual quote handy, but Miles Davis was once accosted after a performance by a woman who had been among the audience. She said to him, "I don't get it, that was awful. I just don't get it."
Miles looked her in the eye, and replied, "I've worked 30 years perfecting my craft. How do you expect to understand it after five minutes?"
Kane
guitrr
Well-known member
Beth said:Hi Kane,
You are also entitled to your opinion, I guess we didn't expect such a heated delivery of it. No worries, let's get back to loving EB/MM!
-Beth
What can I say Beth, sometimes I just get too worked up. LOL!
I can only offer that musicians can get pretty passionate about music!
I saw a quote this morning that said, "How about for the next Idol finale, they just announce the winner at the begining, and then have Prince play for 45 minutes!"
Beth, let's sit down at the next EMBB function, I'll buy you the drink of your choice, and we can laugh about the whole thing! And you're right - all the love to EBMM!
Cheers,
Kane
I'm totally with you on this too, Kane. There's a group of us from the EB office that watch American Idol every week and we talk about who we liked, who we thought "sucked" and who we thought were really good singers vs. who we thought were really good performers/entertainers. I agree that it is sad the way record companies are nowadays and instead of signing real talent and musicianship, they sign who sells. Simon may not be an expert in your eyes, but he certainly nails it when he tells people what they need to do to sell records. It is sad that the music that gets marketed the most is the music that sells the most and vice versa, but the reality is money and marketability. I laughed out loud when you said the thing about American Cartoonist, how true that is!
I'd love to have a drink with you at the next EBMM function and dissect this (and talk about all the other REALLY BAD shows that I watch on television, hee hee!). I get just as frustrated as you do about being force-fed Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera -- luckily there's things like EB Radio and the Ernie Ball Battle of the Bands where I can look for new musical talent, new bands and music that I like. I've definitely been to my share of Jazz and Blues festivals and am utterly amazed at the musicianship and talent that I see there -- even from the no-name guys!
Anyhow, I thank you for posting your opinions. You've brought up some really great points and have really demonstrated the beauty of this forum -- to share ideas and thoughts and points of view about music and the industry in general. Great discussion!
Cheers to that!!
All the best,
Beth
I'd love to have a drink with you at the next EBMM function and dissect this (and talk about all the other REALLY BAD shows that I watch on television, hee hee!). I get just as frustrated as you do about being force-fed Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera -- luckily there's things like EB Radio and the Ernie Ball Battle of the Bands where I can look for new musical talent, new bands and music that I like. I've definitely been to my share of Jazz and Blues festivals and am utterly amazed at the musicianship and talent that I see there -- even from the no-name guys!
Anyhow, I thank you for posting your opinions. You've brought up some really great points and have really demonstrated the beauty of this forum -- to share ideas and thoughts and points of view about music and the industry in general. Great discussion!
Cheers to that!!
All the best,
Beth
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