It's ignorance like this that really upsets me... :-(

[Golem]

1.5 mm may not seem like much, but the total difference
across all 5 strings is 6 mm which to me is significant.

+1.

But what hasn't been mentioned yet is the greater mass
of a wider neck. Any given amount of neck mass has a
bigger effect on tone than a same amount of body mass.

Effect meaning "good effect", as in Bigger Tone. Acoarst,
this is more readily heard without the speed bumps, but
FL is not an option on the initial 19mm batch ....

You also get a larger body-to-neck contact area, altho
I'm not sure what thaz really worth, tonalwise.

 

[jlepre]

Funny you mention the neck...

The other night I had the most realistic dream. I was in the EBMM factory working with BP as a QC analyst. Well he brought me the first prototypes of the 19MM necks and I swear someone must have changed the MM to Inches. Those necks were as wide as boat oars!!!LOL!! BP just laughed and said, "Told ya nobody wants 19MM spacing!" LMAO! Then I woke up...

 

[Freddels]

1.5 mm may not seem like much, but the total difference across all 5 strings is 6 mm which to me is significant.

6mm is only 1/4 inch so it's not THAT much. However, I did stop by GC today to try out the SR5. As a predominantly 4 string player, I found the spacing to be quite comfortable. I could easily play that bass and have no issues with the spacing or neck. It also happened to be a very nice sounding bass.

 

[Big Poppa]

I am scared now....someone had me in a dream.....,ARRRRRRGHHHHH I wouldnt wish that on anyone.

 

[jlepre]

Ha!

 

[ivbenaplayin]

+1.

But what hasn't been mentioned yet is the greater mass
of a wider neck. Any given amount of neck mass has a
bigger effect on tone than a same amount of body mass.

Effect meaning "good effect", as in Bigger Tone. Acoarst,
this is more readily heard without the speed bumps, but
FL is not an option on the initial 19mm batch ....

You also get a larger body-to-neck contact area, altho
I'm not sure what thaz really worth, tonalwise.

I just can't imagine a Stingray having "bigger" tone... They've got pretty massive low end to begin with.

 

[DTG]

Funny you mention the neck...

The other night I had the most realistic dream. I was in the EBMM factory working with BP as a QC analyst. Well he brought me the first prototypes of the 19MM necks and I swear someone must have changed the MM to Inches. Those necks were as wide as boat oars!!!LOL!! BP just laughed and said, "Told ya nobody wants 19MM spacing!" LMAO! Then I woke up...

Hehe thats very funny !!

 

[joebone]

Hey Joe Bone you are famous for a coupla days!

more items.

1. If you guys think that I did this for publicity..talk to bassmonkee or Jackie
2. I am surpised that you guys haven't commented yet on the numbers involved in making a small change. I find that when I totally address a point that you guys who dont agree with how I built Music Man go mute like the point never was brought up.
3.What appears to be a small deal is expensive unless its a pickup. WE dont buy bodies made by one guy that are sent to a third party painter (the two biggest boutique assemblers....)and then buy off the shelf pickups and bridges and then assemble them. We actually mill bodies, sand them, paint them, buff them...then we tool up for our own hardware and pickups then we assemble and set up. Before everyone gets their panties wadded up....Some of those guys are dear friends....But...they dont call themselves builders when we talk. It is so much easier to make one of these changes when you just have to order another bridge and send a change order to the company that does your milling. Do you ever look at the retail prices of the assembled basses...They are fantastically made..rarely change from existing Fender designs but why are they $4,000? Im sure Fenders customer shop stuff is nice too...but I wonder what the landscape of bass would look like if Fender always made nice stuff?

4. I support young builders and designers...have for years. My factory is open to them and my advice.

5.The lack of support from the general public for new forward designs is a kryptonite wall. (once again I love Fender basses too.....I still have my 57 p that my dad gave me when I was 17) but in most industries the Bongo wouldn't have upset as many people as it did. It was what trendy guys call "disruptive" It has been a long term success but it wasnt my goal to have it replace the p and j....I wanted to do something different. I hope that in 50 years that the barriers for unique basses are broken down and the player will feel comfy with more than two or three choices. WE are lucky in that we are one of the three choices...(I know there are more but we are in that top three) Understand these builders chances of making payroll and feeding their family is just awful....terrible sacrifices they make and usually go broke.

Sorry for the rant but wanted to liven up the general bass discussion....
There are you tube videos up with Musicians friend and premier guitar if you want to see how we do it. The whole factory is set up to make what the customer ordered. We dont make inventory...each piece is sold and we are backordered four months currently.

I will tell you that I need to sell 500 before it justifies the investment financially. Even then I cant make more so I have just spent with inventory about 75-80 grand and will still be four months backordered. Its sort of proving a point

And Joe once again I was not calling you a pasty flesh dweeb but am thinking of calling this model the Stingray 5 PFD....got to have some fun.

What got communicated was that Sterling Ball is arrogant..(probably..hahaha) and wont give the customers what they want. I tried to explain the logistics, business model, creative goals and it was ignored...so in end Ill make them if you guys order them.

This situation continues to amaze.

First off, thanks for the 15 minutes of fame, which is very ironic insofar as I cultivate a low profile in my professional life. But hey, wouldn't "Joebone Edition" sound so much hipper than "pfd"??

Seriously, it's right that you remind us of all of the manufacturing functions performed by EBBM - I suspect that all of that involvement and quality control contribute to the fact that nothing sounds like a Stingray, except for a Stingray. Gonna check out the factory video when I get a chance.

Next, intrigued by all of the commentary from TB re your engineering costs, etc. I'm in no position to evaluate that, or your economics in general, but I do note that by making these 19mm jobbers instead of your usual stuff, you face the opportunity cost of making these, with their start-up expense, as compared with cranking out the usual product. Certainly cheaper to make that which is already designed, and even if you hire staff/reconfigure existing manufacturing line to accommodate new output, that's a cost item in itself. I won't pretend genuine analysis of this situation, but your 125-unit threshold seems sensible.

That said, I really, really hope that threshold is reached, as I really, really want one of these instruments. Is the company planning any sort of marketing or notice other than what's up on Talkbass and this website?

Finally, I'd love to know what you and your team are thinking about neck width, radius, etc.

But I do hope I'm right in seeing a 19mm Rosewood HH in my future! And kindly ignore all who obsess over your motives, costs, etc...for some of us, it's all about getting one of these potential instruments into our grubby hands.

Thank you, Sterling.

jk

 

[mfallmann]

Hey cool, If there is a demand he is going to make them for us!!!

 

[Big Poppa]

Thanks Joe...

To the people who question the numbers....just look at the people who have gone by the wayside...Even Dan doesnt own Lakland anymore. (We looked at buying it, but thats another story) IF those people also dont realize that this will cost me money...I cant continue to answer basic business. It's hopeless.

I cant answer your questions yet regarding neck radius or profile...that is part of the engineering costs....there will be several prototypes.
Remember in life whether you are building a birdcage, house or bass...everything costs more than you think and takes longer that you planned....oversimplification and lack of understanding makes people go broke.

 

[TommyK-Stingray]

Remember in life whether you are building a birdcage, house or bass...everything costs more than you think and takes longer that you planned....oversimplification and lack of understanding makes people go broke.

+1. Never a truer word spoken.

 

[joebone]

.
Remember in life whether you are building a birdcage, house or bass...everything costs more than you think and takes longer that you planned....oversimplification and lack of understanding makes people go broke.

So, so true!

 

[cky4ever]

I never measured the string spacing. I played another brand guitar for years because that's what I had. I recently bought a couple EBMM's and just started playing them. Any adjustments needed were made and that was that.

I don't know how people complain so much about anything. Play what's available (after all this is mass produced, and probably the best mass produced out there) and be able to play anything. If you're a true player you'll adjust to anything.

I'll play a broomstick with a humbucker if its all I got. Luckily I got two musicmans and a whole lot of others, 35, 34, 33.5 scale, 5, 4 string, spacing all over the place...

Wear the finish on your bass not your keyboard.

 

[cybersnyder]

To the people who question the numbers....just look at the people who have gone by the wayside...Even Dan doesnt own Lakland anymore. (We looked at buying it, but thats another story) IF those people also dont realize that this will cost me money...I cant continue to answer basic business. It's hopeless.

I think they're looking at it from the perspective of building *a* bass not building a manufacturing process to repeat the process over and over. Even if you could do the cnc work in ten minutes (emphasis on if) there is still QA, testing and refinement. I was just surprised that it was only 100 hours of engineering time. It sounds like a lot until you consider that's one person, two and a half weeks. You can wait in line at the DMV for that long.

 

[Big Poppa]

One bass is the most expensive...two are really expensive 125 are damn expensive...10,000 are reasonable. WIth tooling and engineering and I didnt give you guys a number for shutting down the machine to test and run protos...(those are the same machines that make production) ROI is return on investment....If you invest X and plan on selling 10 you have to put 1/10th of x into each products cost to know when you have repaid the investment. The higher the production of desired product the less the impact of X will have on the selling price or profit margin

What I hope is happening here is that everyone is getting a better glimpse of what goes on....IM sure by now some of my competitors have seen either the tb one (I still havent btw) or this one and nobody is calling me out that has the credentials because they know Im telling it straight.

 

[bassmonkeee]

Yeah, I'm impressed with the guy at TB who says you need to fire all of your engineers because it's so simple a process.


And, it looks like Mr Fart is the guy who posted the "Quality Control" thread a couple of days ago. So, that clears up that mystery.

 

[Smallmouth_Bass]

I almost wish that I was one of the ones who wanted one! I guess I'll have to make do with my "regular" SR5s...

Maybe we should start a SR5 with 16mm string spacing at the bridge campaign!

 

[iamcatwarrior]

Yeah, brilliant idea. Fire the engineers. Terminate the people responsible for some of the most widely respected instruments ever manufactured.

Morons.

 

[bovinehost]

I'm sure by now some of my competitors have seen either the tb one (I still havent btw)

It's okay, I'm preparing a Cliff Notes version for you.

 

[kamakazee]

Hey, cliff notes got me through high school!